Dessa : Music, Memory, Love & Human Behavior

0:000 secondsReal quick before we dive in, if you’re a regular here, consider pulling up a seat to the Patreon. The seat, the table, the kitchen. Three tiers starting at just five bucks a month. Built for
0:088 secondsthe people who don’t just listen, they feel it. patreon.com/tmhf podcast show. Link is always in the show notes.
0:2121 secondsWelcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of the Taste Music Show.
0:2929 seconds[music]0:2929 secondsI am your host Ed Porter.
0:3434 secondsThis is the place for full music and culture and how y’all connect.
0:4040 secondsOh dude, I’m going to watch it now. I think it’s dope.
0:4343 secondsWelcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of the Taste Music here Food Podcast Show. I am your host Ed Porter and this is the destination for
0:5151 secondsfood, music, and culture and how they all connect. My guest today I’ve tried to have on this [ __ ] show for almost a full calendar year.
1:011 minute, 1 second[laughter]1:021 minute, 2 secondsAnd listen, this is how you know the divine intervention and timing you don’t have. Things have to happen when when
1:101 minute, 10 secondsit’s supposed to happen. So I am uh grateful that we could make this happen today. Um, I have a a great uh uh
1:191 minute, 19 secondsreverence for this woman, and I’m going to attempt to pay her her flowers with this intro. So, here we go. There are
1:281 minute, 28 secondsartists who fit neatly into a category, and then there are artists who make the category nervous. Today’s guest is one
1:351 minute, 35 secondsof those rare creative forces who can stand in the middle of hip hop, poetry, science, literature, orchestral music,
1:431 minute, 43 secondsphilosophy, heartbreak, humor, and human behavior and somehow make all of it sound like one language. She is a
1:511 minute, 51 secondsrapper, singer, writer, speaker, cultural thinker, and one of the most distinct voices to come out of Minneapolis. She came through the world
2:002 minutesof spoken word and Doomtree, helped redefine what independent hip hop could look like, sound like, then stretch that
2:082 minutes, 8 secondsworld into memoir, TED Stages, Public Radio, BBC storytelling, the Minnesota Orchestra, and even the Hamilton Universe.
2:182 minutes, 18 secondsOn this platform, we talk about food as more than what it is on the plate. It is what we consume. What shapes us? What
2:262 minutes, 26 secondsnourishes us oftentimes poisons us and thus we keep reaching for it even when we know better. We talk about music as
2:332 minutes, 33 secondsmore than sound. It is vibration, memory, language, frequency, and the rhythm of life being lived. So today we
2:412 minutes, 41 secondsare sitting down with someone who has made a career out of asking what are we really made of? What are we feeding
2:482 minutes, 48 secondsourselves? And what stories are we repeating? And can we change the song playing in our own heads? Please welcome
2:562 minutes, 56 secondsto the Taste Music here podcast show, the multi-talented Desa. And I’mma leave. I just peaked.
3:023 minutes, 2 seconds[laughter]3:043 minutes, 4 secondsI’m so lucky that I’ve heard you flex on your introductions before [laughter] cuz I I came ready. Okay. It’s It’s not
3:123 minutes, 12 secondsgoing to lift me off my seat and out the room. [laughter] Thank you. No, no, you you you are very deserving and uh it is the thing I take the most pride in is
3:223 minutes, 22 secondsbecause I get to talk to some amazing humans and I know that they you you probably haven’t heard someone tell you
3:313 minutes, 31 secondshow you affect them in real time and it is the most important thing. It’s the most important thing. Nobody here’s the
3:383 minutes, 38 secondsdeal with me. I’m a you know hard on sleeve type of guy. Uh-huh.
3:423 minutes, 42 secondsThere’s nobody on this planet that I love and care for that doesn’t know it.
3:463 minutes, 46 secondsAnd there’s nobody on this planet that I have smoke with that doesn’t know that doesn’t know [laughter] some furniture is [ __ ] moving if we
3:533 minutes, 53 secondssee each other. And that’s it’s really simple with me. There’s really there’s no, you know, no guys whatsoever. So, yes, thank you so much
4:024 minutes, 2 secondsfor for being being you just Thanks for having me in your house, too.
4:064 minutes, 6 secondsFor sure. For sure. All right, let’s let’s just talk. Let’s talk.
4:094 minutes, 9 secondsAll right. before the world knew you as Desa, the multi- you know slash as you are, what were you hungry for?
4:194 minutes, 19 secondsWhat what got your juices going to the fact of creation?
4:234 minutes, 23 secondsYou know, the first time that I remember having like a like the sensation of ambition and drive, I wasn’t even sure exactly where to attach it yet. I just
4:324 minutes, 32 secondsremember like, you know, you’d see on TV, even on just like network TV, you’d see like [clears throat] there’s doctors in there and there’s scrubs and they’re
4:394 minutes, 39 secondssort of like stressing out over [ __ ] clipboard and shit’s real important. And I was like, “Yeah, I want that.” But I [laughter] didn’t I didn’t want to go to medical school. Like, I wanted a
4:474 minutes, 47 secondsclipboard. You know what I’m saying? I knew that I wanted to spend my time doing something that I cared about and that seemed important to other people,
4:564 minutes, 56 secondstoo. So I think I had that sense of like whatever I pick to make rent, you know, I want to make a life out of. Yeah. Yeah.
5:045 minutes, 4 secondsAnd then to be honest, like I loved music, but my mom had a voice like a voice. Yeah.
5:135 minutes, 13 secondsAnd so, you know, she would doing dishes. She’s singing Whitney Houston effortlessly. Yeah. That’s that’s like nothing. And so she has one of
5:215 minutes, 21 secondsthose, you know, those kind of voices that hits like really athletic um staircases, melismas, you know, she’s so I just thought like, okay, well, I’m
5:305 minutes, 30 secondsnot the best singer at my address,
5:325 minutes, 32 seconds[laughter]5:335 minutes, 33 secondsright? There’s no there’s no chance, right?
5:375 minutes, 37 secondsUh and then, you know, was pleasantly obviously the world is full of all sorts of music. I love a voice like that.
5:435 minutes, 43 secondsIt’s not what I came built in. It’s not the read I got dealt, you know. Um, but I have a very like I have a very pretty, you know, alto voice and I love the
5:515 minutes, 51 secondswriting of lyrics. And so then finding my way into music through that lane instead of um, you know, like a an
5:595 minutes, 59 secondsAmerica’s Got Talent or the voice kind of lane, right, was the way that I found my way in. Yeah, that’s [clears throat] dope. That’s dope.
6:066 minutes, 6 secondsLike you said, you you there’s some attachment to language. Let’s just call it language. Some attachment to language that really sparks. That’s where you
6:156 minutes, 15 secondscome alive at. Yes. What? What? When did you figure that you could manipulate
6:216 minutes, 21 secondslanguage to suit or not suit Yeah. moods?
6:276 minutes, 27 secondsI think to be honest, first it was probably me becoming aware of the way that language was manipulating my mind in my understanding of the
6:356 minutes, 35 secondsworld. So, for example, I remember like my mom would read to me at night and I think it was like a Peter Rabbit join.
6:426 minutes, 42 seconds[laughter]6:436 minutes, 43 secondsGot it.
6:446 minutes, 44 secondsAnd she used, you know, and then what? And then she used she used the word fortnite, you know, was in the book and I was like, stop.
6:536 minutes, 53 secondsWhat? You know, and so she explained that there was this measurement of time that was 2 weeks long and you didn’t hear a lot that it was called a
6:596 minutes, 59 secondsFortnite. This blew my mind out the back of my head. I was like the idea that I thought I knew all the time words like I
7:077 minutes, 7 secondswas old enough to know week and so all of a sudden I felt like oh you could just chop up reality into different blocks like that and use it and you know
7:167 minutes, 16 secondsfor me like learning a new word like that that put a slightly new perspective on what I thought was a familiar familiar terrain right
7:237 minutes, 23 secondsthat was it and then watching like when I first learned about themes I’d been watching a TV show my mom she said what’s a theme and I didn’t know what
7:317 minutes, 31 secondsshe was talking about she explained it I was Like, excuse me, ma’am.
7:347 minutes, 34 secondsAre you telling me there’s invisible threads that run through all of art that in addition to like understanding the surface plot, you know, so and so falls
7:437 minutes, 43 secondsin love to break? Okay. That there’s allegorical, it felt like I could see gravity. Yeah. No facts.
7:517 minutes, 51 secondsYou know, facts.
7:527 minutes, 52 secondsYeah. So for me I think language even as a kid I remember sitting on the school bus and watching the world pass by and I would try to like pick an object as it
8:008 minuteswas panning past and write a dictionary definition as soon as I can in the private of my mind by the time the next noun came along. Yeah.
8:078 minutes, 7 secondsOh yeah. So you you were operating at a different level like pretty pretty early on.
8:128 minutes, 12 secondsI wasn’t homecoming queen [laughter] if that’s what you’re asking.
8:178 minutes, 17 secondsNo but that’s that’s but that’s that’s here’s the other thing too. I just told my daughter this too. My youngest 11. My My youngest is I got six kids.
8:268 minutes, 26 secondsHey. Okay.
8:278 minutes, 27 secondsOh, yeah. Yeah. I was popular. Um
8:298 minutes, 29 seconds[laughter]8:308 minutes, 30 secondsHomecoming kid. Yeah.
8:328 minutes, 32 secondsNo, but I was tell So, five daughters, one Wow. Okay.
8:358 minutes, 35 secondsYeah. So um like that’s why even your your story is that much more important to me because it’s important for young
8:428 minutes, 42 secondsgirls to see women doing them just doing what they want to do in manners and
8:498 minutes, 49 secondsplaying in arenas where you know let’s just call it spadis is male dominated fields but there is a necessity for all
8:598 minutes, 59 secondsof these voices and yours is unique and everyone has a unique voice you got to learn how to use it you I think that’s
9:069 minutes, 6 secondsthe um the hardest thing for any artist is finding their voice, their unique voice, and then how to stay true to it.
9:149 minutes, 14 secondsAnd I think even just like finding a unique voice is and in and of itself an act of creativity because it’s not like sometimes, you know, when artists talk
9:229 minutes, 22 secondsabout it quickly, I think there can be the misconception that, well, I have my unique voice, but I’m too afraid to use it, so I just follow the herd.
9:289 minutes, 28 secondsObviously, I’m sure that on occasion happens. discovering what the hell your unique voice is to figure out what part of the conventions of this form
9:389 minutes, 38 secondswhether that’s hip-hop or folk or you know for all I know plating like no it goes it’s all it’s all relative yeah
9:459 minutes, 45 secondslike what what do I dig about the conventions of my era of the country in which I was born the part of the country what do I dig what is worth
9:549 minutes, 54 secondsreconsidering which trends and expectations are worth bucking and fighting against Like you have to decide that in a million ways. Do you want to
10:0310 minutes, 3 secondswrite in present tense? Do you want to write in first person? Do you want real time? Yes. And do it all in real time. And then you have to say what do I like?
10:0910 minutes, 9 secondsIt’s like you’re sitting in front of like, you know, the Sherman Williams entire catalog of colors, right? And you start with pinks. Okay. I think this is my favorite. And then you go to beiges.
10:1810 minutes, 18 secondsThere’s a lot of choosing to do to figure out what your voice is, too.
10:2110 minutes, 21 secondsYeah. No, and that that’s that’s recognition. Yeah. And and this here’s the here’s the fact of the matter is that in every instance whenever ever
10:3010 minutes, 30 secondsanyone starts they start out mimicking the things they like. Yes. Yes.
10:3510 minutes, 35 secondsIn every instance. There’s not one instance where that doesn’t happen.
10:3910 minutes, 39 secondsWhether that’s be a chef, whether that you’re following recipes at first before you figure out you got to learn the rules so you can be be able to break the rules.
10:4610 minutes, 46 secondsY and that’s in I’ll use a better one. If you go to when you when you hear anybody from the UK sing, they sound very
10:5410 minutes, 54 secondsAmerican [laughter] because we and it’s that’s that’s by design. They don’t know it. They’re like a parakeet. So, you know, pretty much
11:0311 minutes, 3 secondsbecause they are mimicking a feeling that is evoked.
11:0611 minutes, 6 secondsAnd it takes an enormous amount of introspective Yes.
11:1211 minutes, 12 secondssearching to figure out where your unique voice lies and all of that. And most people never find it. Never. There are so many
11:2111 minutes, 21 secondsartists like other artists. Like, oh, that’s why you get and then the world is, you know, that we live in is built on boxes. So, like, like it just what it
11:3011 minutes, 30 secondsis. Like, oh, how is it? What is like what does a banana taste like? A [ __ ] banana.
11:3411 minutes, 34 secondsLike, there’s nothing else that tastes like it, you know? So, I always know like in the ‘9s, the the golden era of hip-hop. The reason why I
11:4211 minutes, 42 secondsalways will go back to that is because there were a ton of artists, but everybody strived to sound uniquely
11:4811 minutes, 48 secondsthemselves. And that bucked the system of of of conformity with, you know, capitalism in these companies because
11:5711 minutes, 57 secondsthey want whatever worked. And when you when you were different, they shunned you. And I think also I mean weren’t there fewer maybe this is naive but I
12:0412 minutes, 4 secondsimagine it’s like fewer people to emulate fewer people to emulate and that you are really pioneering what you were creating in a vacuum too. We
12:1212 minutes, 12 secondsdidn’t have access like you know you know what I mean creating in a vacuum is is a thing and that’s a good and bad thing too you know because you you do need sometimes you need to know
12:2112 minutes, 21 secondsthat you know that ain’t it [laughter] right? So there’s there is something to be said for having a a peer-to-p peer
12:2812 minutes, 28 secondsrelationship to know whether um vibrationally you are on the right path cuz sometimes
12:3512 minutes, 35 secondsI think most more most more times than not you know when something’s not like hitting all the marks but you either jump on that train and and ride it or
12:4312 minutes, 43 secondsyou don’t. Um and sometimes you are people are getting off before their time. So they’re they’re being deviated
12:5012 minutes, 50 secondsfrom their trajectory. I think also it’s that balance of like there’s the signals you’re getting externally which are fewer obviously if you’re in a relative vacuum. This is dope. This is not dope.
13:0013 minutesI don’t enjoy this. This is too dissonant. This is too whatever you’re getting. And then there’s internally some signal trying to figure out the
13:0813 minutes, 8 secondsextent to which it you balance the two for your best work. Also the extent to which maybe your internal voice has been
13:1613 minutes, 16 secondseasedropping on the external one. You know, I have calling myself out like after after a record comes out and like my song is now whatever the favorite
13:2413 minutes, 24 secondssong is on Spotify. Did I did on [laughter] the subconscious the subconscious wants to live. Okay.
13:3113 minutes, 31 secondsThe subconscious wants to live for sure.
13:3313 minutes, 33 secondsThat’s a that’s a that’s something great because very few I mean we are influenced. We we’re social creatures.
13:4213 minutes, 42 secondsWe exactly we’re social creatures in in the in the construct of being a sponge.
13:4613 minutes, 46 secondsyou can’t help but to and comedians and Gabriel can tell you this too. Comedians go through this all the time like sometimes there’ll be a bit and then did I bite that?
13:5413 minutes, 54 secondsRight. And so you might have heard something and and it might makes its way into your upcoming works unconsciously.
14:0214 minutes, 2 secondsYes.
14:0214 minutes, 2 secondsYou were influenced or inspired, let’s use that word because it’s a better one by something you heard. And it is what it is. I have definitely [clears throat]14:1114 minutes, 11 secondslike been really feeling myself on a line that I thought was great and then years later heard you two sing it and I’m like that’s [laughter]14:1814 minutes, 18 secondsthat song’s been out for 10 years. I 1,000%.
14:2314 minutes, 23 seconds[laughter]14:2414 minutes, 24 secondsYou know what I mean? So yeah, I totally It happens. It happens. We are permeable.
14:2814 minutes, 28 secondsYes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Okay, we’re going to get into a segment called Cold Truths.
14:3314 minutes, 33 secondsEvery flavor tells a story. Every story holds a truth. This is cold truth presented by just fruit sorbet atilier.
14:3914 minutes, 39 secondsThe new standard in sorbet. Pure fruit thoughtfully crafted fruit at its most honest. Chef driven small batch sorbets made with real fruit, organic
14:4814 minutes, 48 secondsingredients and flavors designed to hit like a perfect record at the perfect moment. So what we’re going to do is
14:5514 minutes, 55 secondswe’re going to taste an excerpt sampling of sorbet. And in my opinion,
15:0315 minutes, 3 secondsuh, real conversations happen when they are over flavor in real time.
15:0915 minutes, 9 secondsAnd so what I’m going to do is I’m going to ask you a question that’s going to require your unadulterated truth. What you have here is a tofu mango.
15:1815 minutes, 18 secondsTofu mango.
15:1915 minutes, 19 secondsA tofu mango, which is the yellow mangoes and Thai coconut. And Thai coconut. Okay, got you.
15:2615 minutes, 26 secondsAnd um, so yeah, let’s let’s let’s dig into that. And I want to ask you a question that only you could answer.
15:3215 minutes, 32 secondsAnyway, [clears throat] I used to slang high-end gelato and sorbet, so I am ready.
15:3915 minutes, 39 secondsOkay. So, this you are again perfect for this. This is right up your alley then. That’s a super ripe mango.
15:4815 minutes, 48 secondsYeah. Oh, that’s good.
15:5115 minutes, 51 secondsDo you have a on a scale of 1 to 10, how developed is your sweet tooth? Or how much do you like sweets? 1 to 10.
15:5915 minutes, 59 secondsme. Yeah. 22.
16:0116 minutes, 1 second[laughter]16:0216 minutes, 2 seconds23. Absolutely. Yeah. Sweet. It’s good, huh?
16:1116 minutes, 11 secondsI really do like it. [laughter] I really do.
16:1316 minutes, 13 secondsYou’re going to hate my comparison, but it’s like it’s the best dreamsicle I’ve ever had.
16:1716 minutes, 17 secondsThat is a Yeah, you’re right. [laughter] Yep. I knew you would like that.
16:2216 minutes, 22 secondsIt’s a sophisticated It’s a luxury Dreamsicle, but it’s with the coconut, whereas I feel like the the Dreamsicle runs on more like the cream flavor, right? Yeah. So, no cream, no dairy.
16:3116 minutes, 31 secondsYeah.
16:3116 minutes, 31 seconds100% dairyfree. Um, all organic, all the good stuff.
16:3516 minutes, 35 secondsOkay. I guess you being a you being sort of just Yeah, you’re tuning me out. But you being the the the slinger, as you said,
16:4216 minutes, 42 secondsof high-end gelato and sorbets, how do you rank? Honestly, this one’s really high. Yeah.
16:4816 minutes, 48 secondsI think I’m used to the mango that has like a slightly more a tang to it. This is like a really ripe mango. I’m a sugar fiend. I really like that.
16:5716 minutes, 57 secondsYeah. So, yeah. These are mangoes that they use to make like the dry mangoes and the mango candy out of this. That’s like those are my favorite ones.
17:0417 minutes, 4 secondsYes. Yes.
17:0617 minutes, 6 secondsOkay. Here’s your question now that I got you all. All right. Sugar high.
17:1017 minutes, 10 secondsNow, this is perfect though. People love the idea of the tortured artist, right?
17:1417 minutes, 14 secondsUntil the artist actually tells the truth. M what is something audiences consume from artists that they do not always realize cost something real?
17:2417 minutes, 24 secondsWhat is Okay. H I mean I think my answer would be different 10 years ago but I think now it is about like that constant access.
17:3617 minutes, 36 secondsSo like picking somebody big big you know let’s say like a doaat or something. Mhm.
17:4217 minutes, 42 secondsthe amount that she expends as a person of, you know, psychic energy, actual calories, yeah,
17:5017 minutes, 50 secondsseconds of her ever, you know, precious and diminishing life. Like, um, it takes a lot to be as personable and to be as
17:5817 minutes, 58 secondshands-on and and accessible. And of course, there is sort of like a one-way aspect to that parasocial relationship.
18:0718 minutes, 7 secondsDoicat can see the foul [ __ ] that you write in the comments go by. And in addition to being a celebrity and a
18:1518 minutes, 15 secondsbadass lyricist and a super charismatic performer, she’s a human being with a human heart. That [ __ ] hurts. Facts.
18:2218 minutes, 22 secondsAnd I think I think all of I’m sure myself included, you know, you’re you’re in like casual conversation with a friend and you know, you’re talking about somebody famous, they can’t hear
18:3218 minutes, 32 secondsthat cuz you’re in your own kitchen. But when you put that online, um I think that people would be surprised the extent to which their
18:4018 minutes, 40 secondsseemingly casual, off-hand, unthinking comments do tend to filter up and that how much it takes to
18:4918 minutes, 49 secondslike Yeah. to put your heart out there, to make yourself the most vulnerable that you can be, and to receive
18:5818 minutes, 58 secondsnot just aesthetic criticism, which is part of the artist’s job, but deeply personal shade. Yeah.
19:0519 minutes, 5 secondsYou know, I think I think people would be surprised at how many of their famous their the people they really like have shed tears over that.
19:1219 minutes, 12 secondsOh my goodness. This What about you?
19:1419 minutes, 14 secondsEven the toughest. So, even the All right. So, I I like to think that, you know, I’m unique in the fact that I’ I’ve been on
19:2319 minutes, 23 secondsstages, large crowds, and also been, you know, in settings where I’m cooking on on a stage, if you will.
19:3119 minutes, 31 secondsUm, and that that type of give and take. There’s something about
19:3819 minutes, 38 secondsbeing on a stage, that elevated position that makes people think that you’re not human. We become zoo animals, right? And
19:4619 minutes, 46 secondsso in that state, you don’t you’re not spoken of or about in a in a human in a humane way.
19:5319 minutes, 53 secondsYes. Yeah. Exactly. For sure.
19:5519 minutes, 55 secondsAnd because of that be because and that’s again part of the gig though, you you’re you’re subjected to that type of
20:0220 minutes, 2 secondsexposure because you are, you know, you you have all these other things at your disposal. However,
20:0920 minutes, 9 secondsI I think when people really it and I commend people like a doja who actually shows her, you know, she can’t help it.
20:1620 minutes, 16 secondsThis is really what it is. That’s really that’s really what it is. She she she can’t help but you know there’s cracks in the infrastructure because like look
20:2420 minutes, 24 secondsyou can’t continuously kick me and think that I I I don’t feel it.
20:2720 minutes, 27 secondsAnd not only that, I think like you know she’s on camera more than celebrities were 10 years ago. So I think you can curate this careful image for an hour a
20:3620 minutes, 36 secondsday, but you can’t do it for seven. You can’t do it for 12.
20:3920 minutes, 39 secondsThe there’s no real celebrity is not at once what it once was. Like there was the the mystique the
20:4720 minutes, 47 secondsmystique is not there’s no such thing because they don’t want it. People say they want it, but they don’t want it.
20:5120 minutes, 51 secondsBut you know what I think I think that some people might want it is just that I think you can’t have well for most cases. I think you just can’t have a successful career anymore and keep it.
20:5920 minutes, 59 secondsYou can’t. No. No. No. Cuz what are you selling? None of us.
21:0221 minutes, 2 secondsFor the most part. For the most part, music isn’t the commodity on offer. No.
21:0921 minutes, 9 secondsYou know, like I’m super grateful to the folks who have my vinyl genuinely.
21:1421 minutes, 14 secondsAnd I’m also aware openeyed that some people bought it cuz they wanted to say hi and get a signature. Thank you.
21:2121 minutes, 21 secondsRight. Some people are grabbing a t-shirt.
21:2521 minutes, 25 secondsThank you again. But fundamentally, like music lives on your phone and it’s free for a big swath of music listeners, right? So that’s real.
21:3321 minutes, 33 secondsYou’re selling access 100%. And you have to find a a
21:4021 minutes, 40 secondsit’s a fine line between between too much access and sanity.
21:4521 minutes, 45 secondsAbsolutely. [laughter] Or also just class like you know and what’s what’s the kind of art that you want to provide? Part of me is just like yo I
21:5321 minutes, 53 secondsdon’t want to talk about Tuesday afternoon. The whole reason I made art was to understand like to try to distill, right? And to concentrate human experience.
22:0422 minutes, 4 secondsYeah.
22:0422 minutes, 4 secondsSo I don’t want to sell 32 beer because I’m running a distillery. Yeah. Period. You know what I mean?
22:0822 minutes, 8 secondsYeah. Yeah. [laughter] At its highest point. Yeah.
22:1222 minutes, 12 secondsAbsolutely. All right. That was cold truths presented by just fruit sorbet atilier where the flavors are cold but the conversations are honest. For more info head to www.justfruitsorbet.com.
22:2322 minutes, 23 secondsAll right.
22:2522 minutes, 25 secondsWhen you think about the things that you have to consume or have consumed over the years, right? Okay.
22:3222 minutes, 32 secondsSo, um your life, think about consumed over your life, whether that’s books, musics, relationships are a huge part of that. Cities, heartbreak, all the things, science, all of it.
22:4422 minutes, 44 secondsWhat has nourished you to become the person that you are today?
22:4822 minutes, 48 secondsHuman connections. Absolutely. I think for me so often like understanding a lot of the the academic interest that I got.
22:5822 minutes, 58 secondsSo I I really dig like neuroscience that kind of stuff.
23:0123 minutes, 1 secondBut at its heart I think understanding that stuff is because I want to better understand human connection. You know what I mean? Like that’s great.
23:0923 minutes, 9 secondsWhat are the what are the micro expressions and what are the reflexes that we have that we’re born? Like I was reading today about how like babies come out with a bunch of reflexes readyade.
23:1923 minutes, 19 secondsMhm. that are inhibited through adult through their adulthood us and that often reemerge in the final years of our lives, you know. So like
23:2823 minutes, 28 secondswhen kids are really little, their hands and their mouths are linked. If you press on both their palms firmly, their mouths will open and their eyes will
23:3523 minutes, 35 secondsclose. Um, and that can if that reflex isn’t totally correctly inhibited, it can make it difficult to learn how to
23:4323 minutes, 43 secondswrite because your hand and mouth are still react. I of course immediately I thought of guitar face, right? Like Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. Like every
23:5023 minutes, 50 secondsgood guitar player has it. [laughter] They can’t be.
23:5323 minutes, 53 secondsNot that I know that those are like that’s what I thought of. But I think yeah, for me it’s like I want to understand what it’s like to be alive and to try to find love and peace and
24:0224 minutes, 2 secondssometimes smoke with one another. Like I I think I think almost all of my connections and interests come back to language and human. Right. Yeah.
24:1024 minutes, 10 secondsOkay. And what from that experience, from what you ingested did you have to detox from? Oh, I think for me it’s such
24:1724 minutes, 17 secondsa standard answer, but I think um that kind of unilateral social connection in
24:2424 minutes, 24 secondsin my phone that like you hear people you hear researchers talking about like how damaging it is for teenagers. I’m like, what about me?
24:3224 minutes, 32 secondsWhat about also for me? What [snorts] a life suck. Oh my goodness.
24:3624 minutes, 36 secondsWhat a life suck. And I I so often find like my willpower on its own to be insufficiently matched with the draw of like those moving lights and pictures.
24:4724 minutes, 47 secondsSuch [laughter] a bummer.
24:4824 minutes, 48 secondsAnd no, it’s it’s there’s Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. The the the scrolling doom scrolling is a is a [ __ ] thing.
24:5624 minutes, 56 secondsEven just like like surfing, you know what I mean? Oh, this is funny. this like is [laughter] it funnier that you is it so funny that you would like to
25:0425 minutes, 4 secondswhen on your deathbed be like I did that for 6 years yeah no is it that funny out of it’s not that funny it’s defin definitely not that funny you
25:1225 minutes, 12 secondsknow and there’s very few things that you equate to having Here’s the deal
25:2025 minutes, 20 secondsI um my cousin um my cousin’s wife passed the day before she passed he had sent
25:2725 minutes, 27 secondsher this something he found on on on YouTube and it was this gentleman speaking I got to find it too. He’s speaking about time in the sense of heartbeats.
25:3625 minutes, 36 secondsYeah. [sighs] How many?
25:3925 minutes, 39 secondsSo everybody in this world is born a billionaire, right? So you have about two billion heartbeats.
25:4725 minutes, 47 secondsThe average American lives to about 65 and that [ __ ] is decreasing by the year, you know, 6570 if you’re lucky.
25:5725 minutes, 57 secondsSo if you think about time and incroatically about in heartbeats,
26:0526 minutes, 5 secondsa lot of [ __ ] doesn’t matter. Like like don’t waste your heartbeats. Like there’s this because you’ll never get them back. It’s the only thing that we’re spending that we don’t know.
26:1226 minutes, 12 secondsThe only thing we’re spending we do not know when the limit is up. And you can’t buy more. Nope.
26:2026 minutes, 20 secondsYou can’t trade something of value for more. Like that’s the only I agree with.
26:2326 minutes, 23 secondsThere’s a there’s this book um I think it’s time is life is long if you know how to use it I think. Um but same thing it’s like this is the one resource.
26:3326 minutes, 33 secondsMhm.
26:3326 minutes, 33 secondsIt’s absolutely finite. So like we can get so spun on exactly where our dollars go.
26:4226 minutes, 42 secondsYeah. Where do your minutes go, dude?
26:4426 minutes, 44 secondsFacts. And because we spend a lot of time garbage on garbage on for sure so much time and then just
26:5326 minutes, 53 secondsthe just even the negative thoughts about other [ __ ] It’s it’s crazy. It’s it’s and that’s the worst use of time.
27:0027 minutesThat’s worse than doom scrolling because we you know we we electric beings and we attract what we put out. So when you are
27:0927 minutes, 9 secondsit’s the same thing like when you say you just bought a pair of shoes or a new car. car is a good one. You started [ __ ] seeing those cars everywhere,
27:1727 minutes, 17 secondsright? Right. Everywhere you because you’re you’re cognizant of priming yourself and you’re you’re open to to seeing.
27:2527 minutes, 25 secondsIt’s no [ __ ] wonder why when you’re in a shitty mood and you feeling like everything’s against you. Yeah. [ __ ]27:3327 minutes, 33 secondsstarts coming out the woodwork. You start getting piled on with a bunch of dumb [ __ ] Um, if you you gotta really keep yourself in a mental state that is
27:4227 minutes, 42 secondsopen to perceiving better than where you’re currently at. And if you do that, that positive way of thinking, you attract other positive people, which is
27:5027 minutes, 50 secondswhere the magic comes from because you it’s impossible to be in a state of doom when you’re surrounded by light. M or
27:5827 minutes, 58 secondseven just the idea of like you know that kind of hopelessness that can acrue you know when you’re reading some of like
28:0628 minutes, 6 secondsgenuinely the worst most urgent unsettling horror stories from around the planet are available to you at all
28:1428 minutes, 14 secondstimes. I mean in in moving pictures and vivid color. Wow. That that’s new. And like that feeling of of being just
28:2228 minutes, 22 secondsovermatched by that instead of like, yo, well, I my downstairs neighbor has broken his
28:2928 minutes, 29 secondsankle. I could run and get him some organic blue tortilla chips from Good Earth or whatever the brand that he
28:3728 minutes, 37 secondsdid. Like that is something an action, right? An action to do to counter that feeling. I think too I think we have this idea that that sometimes by virtue
28:4528 minutes, 45 secondsof being tenderhearted our our duty is served. Yeah. No. No. This is active service.
28:5228 minutes, 52 seconds[laughter]28:5228 minutes, 52 secondsYour pain is not the currency. Yes. Right. Right.
28:5528 minutes, 55 secondsIn which the world is writed. That’s your action.
28:5828 minutes, 58 secondsAbsolutely. Absolutely. That’s a great point.
29:0029 minutesUm in in restaurants, you know, chefs talk about balance, right? So you have acid, fat, salt, heat,
29:0829 minutes, 8 secondssweetness in your writing. M what are the ingredients you are always balancing? I love this question.
29:1629 minutes, 16 secondsI think for me I like big idea right big philosophy big and I’m not I have like no desire to be
29:2329 minutes, 23 secondslike Bill Nye the science guy of hip hop. So I don’t want to use the big words I want to use the big ideas but I want to cloak them and present them
29:3229 minutes, 32 secondsin the absolutely most relatable of human scale interactions. And so for me, I think the balance of like not the not
29:4129 minutes, 41 secondsthe sacred and the profane, but like the sacred and the mundane, you know? So I don’t mean sacred in like a godly way,
29:5029 minutes, 50 secondsbut like the biggest ideas, the biggest conflicts that we have to try to the biggest heartaches, the biggest losses, the biggest loves.
29:5929 minutes, 59 secondsI often think that those aren’t best presented with the biggest words and the hyperbolic drama. It’s in like, you
30:0630 minutes, 6 secondsknow, you see your mom right after her her love has passed and you look at that tan line on her left finger, ring finger, and you know that, you know,
30:1430 minutes, 14 secondswhen that skin matches cuz she’s not wearing the ring anymore. This morning period of nature, like those little details, you know, the mascara that’s
30:2330 minutes, 23 secondslike on someone’s collar, even as she’s crushing it in the staff, meaning like this has been a this has been a big Tuesday for this person, you know? And
30:3230 minutes, 32 secondsso for me, I think looking for those little details that are connected to our our biggest heartstrings.
30:3730 minutes, 37 secondsMhm. That’s a scope. That’s a That’s a great one.
30:4230 minutes, 42 secondsThat’s a great one. And I like I like always tying or or weaving the thread
30:5030 minutes, 50 secondsthrough between food and music because they they’re there. They’re there. And so they’re all food and music are always paired together, but never in an intentional way. like any restaurant
30:5930 minutes, 59 secondsyou’ve ever been to, there’s always some fake music in the background, but it’s never tied to the the one singular message.
31:0431 minutes, 4 secondsI was going to say though, I mean, you know, when you go to like, you know, my my mom’s side is Puerto Rican and there obviously it’s like, you know, the
31:1131 minutes, 11 secondsbuffet is connected to the salsa dancing is connected to that’s different.
31:1631 minutes, 16 secondsSo that’s Oh, that’s 100% intentional and instinctual, you know. So like Yeah.
31:1931 minutes, 19 secondsYeah. That’s a whole Nobody was like, I have an idea. They were like, I have a boom box and you have rice. [laughter] Let’s make it. Let’s make it. Okay.
31:2731 minutes, 27 secondsas if you don’t already have a million other things on your your plate. You you also dived into baking. What What can I be honest? I’m going hard.
31:3731 minutes, 37 secondsI No, you don’t have a there’s no middle ground with you. You either [laughter] you’re either in it or not. Like there’s no it’s either you’re in or not. And as
31:4531 minutes, 45 secondsI started baking, so that’s how I Wait, tell me what do you mean?
31:4931 minutes, 49 secondsNo. So I I got into pastry first. I did pastry first. So pastry. Okay, let’s use musical terms.
31:5731 minutes, 57 secondsBaking is science. So baking I equate to like poker music. Well, okay. I didn’t see that coming.
32:0232 minutes, 2 secondsOkay. And this is why because you can you can go up or down fast and tempo, but it’s the same beat. Okay.
32:1032 minutes, 10 secondsIt has to be exact. It’s exacting. Okay. Cooking is like jazz.
32:1432 minutes, 14 secondsAs long as you know the rules, you can I’m in, I’m out. However you want to.
32:2232 minutes, 22 secondsThat’s I would think for a person like you. Yeah.
32:2632 minutes, 26 secondsHaving the great invention comes from constraint.
32:3432 minutes, 34 secondsSo forcing you to think within the confines to find a way out of the confines is the is the magic of being
32:4132 minutes, 41 secondsable to bake and then you can now the baking of it is confined. The design is where the whimsy comes in.
32:4732 minutes, 47 secondsI think so. And I like I know that no, you know, there’s no pastry chef or fan who’s going to be like, “Cool answer,
32:5432 minutes, 54 secondsDustin.” But I think honestly for me it was like it start I’m I’m competitive when it’s low stakes, [laughter] right?
33:0333 minutes, 3 secondsAnd so my dude had made me a cake for my birthday. It was like a carrot cake. I was like, “Thank you. This is delicious.
33:0933 minutes, 9 secondsI will make a better one.” What a [laughter] jerk. What an absolute That is an [ __ ] statement.
33:1433 minutes, 14 seconds100%. And we know we were we were ribbing each other about something else, right? And so I was like, “Okay, well, I’m going to bake a better cake.” And so, so I made this cake and I was like,
33:2133 minutes, 21 seconds”This is pretty good.” And then he was like, “This is actually pretty,” like, he’s a baker. He was like, “This is pretty good.” You know, and then from
33:2933 minutes, 29 secondsthere, I was like, I loved the piping, you know, on the outside, the decorating and stuff. Didn’t know how to do any of it yet. I didn’t know you had to spin it. I didn’t know anything. You know
33:3833 minutes, 38 secondswhat I mean? It’s just like, you talk about a vacuum.
33:4033 minutes, 40 secondsHey, you know, 100%. [laughter] But I I went really far down the rabbit hole. Like I interviewed through a
33:4733 minutes, 47 secondstranslator one of my favorite South Korean, you know, flower cakes, which is the the stuff that I make. And I think for me, to be honest, I think making the
33:5533 minutes, 55 secondsfrosting is the part that it does feel more like cooking, right? I didn’t like this. I’m going to toss in some more cinnamon. Oh, okay. I’ve been trying ube. How does that work? So to me, I think the frosting is my big passion.
34:0634 minutes, 6 secondsAnd I’ve learned how to cakes so that I have a canvas. [laughter] No, no, no facts. So again, that’s the jazz part of it. Per you don’t temper
34:1534 minutes, 15 secondsthose eggs. that cake don’t come out right. Exactly.
34:1734 minutes, 17 secondsAnd there’s no fixing it. You got to start over. There’s no [laughter] It’s Everything is very exacting. It’s It’s chemistry. It’s [ __ ] chemistry.
34:2434 minutes, 24 secondsOkay. Also, I just feel like I didn’t know you started as a pastry. Why have we talked about I had a [ __ ] a bakery. I saw when I
34:3134 minutes, 31 secondswas in the Bay um and it’s a great job. It’s not a business because
34:3934 minutes, 39 secondswhen you’re known for for making cakes a certain way, it’s hard. You can’t teach that. like it’s something like there’s a process like you get to commercial ways
34:4834 minutes, 48 secondsthat’s fine but when there’s you uh there’s certain way you do stuff it was hard for me to teach other people to scale right to scale so every cake that came
34:5734 minutes, 57 secondsthrough I had to touch everyone that’s a [ __ ] job it’s not a business I congratulations you you just you just made a job for yourself and if I don’t
35:0635 minutes, 6 secondstouch the cakes the money don’t come yeah dude I think also like you know the flip side of like I’m my own boss is like I’m my own intern yeah yeah I’m the executive intern.
35:1435 minutes, 14 secondsThat’s what it is. That’s [laughter] what it is. And not executive all the time.
35:1735 minutes, 17 secondsSometimes I’m just like the intern’s intern. You know what I mean? Absolutely.
35:2035 minutes, 20 secondsYeah. Wait, wait, wait. Really quickly, just I know you got conflict. Tell me what kind of cake. Like what was the signature cake? My signature cake? Yeah. Anything someone didn’t like.
35:2835 minutes, 28 secondsOh, so you’re going hard on flavor combinations, textures, pairings. What?
35:3235 minutes, 32 secondsYeah. So, all right. So, there’s there’s a couple of different crumb patterns that that you would go to. So, the moist cake.
35:3935 minutes, 39 secondsYep. So which I believe like chocolate needs to be dense and moist. It needs to be carrot cake is also in that band
35:4635 minutes, 46 secondsand you have some aid from the carrots and all stuff. Right. Exactly.
35:5235 minutes, 52 secondsUm and then you get to so like like your pound cakes and things of that nature that has a little more structure to it. Still needs to be moist.
36:0036 minutesDo you soak the pound cakes? Soak all cakes. All cakes. Thank you. All cakes need to be soaked. Come on. [laughter] Okay.
36:0636 minutes, 6 secondsAll cakes. So I I’m like I would make my own vanilla. Okay. Like Yeah. I’m I’m I was Yeah. Yeah.
36:1236 minutes, 12 secondsYeah. We wholeheartedly into the whole thing. So that that’s why it was I would make fond.
36:1936 minutes, 19 secondsOh yes, dude.
36:2036 minutes, 20 secondsI would make the butter to make the buttercream.
36:2236 minutes, 22 secondsOh yeah. So yeah. Listen. I was like, “Wow.” Wow. Oh yeah. Like base drop.
36:2836 minutes, 28 secondsYeah. So that that’s the butter to make the buttercream.
36:3136 minutes, 31 secondsYes. because I had to so a six-inch cake for me and how many layers?
36:3736 minutes, 37 secondsSix inch I would do I would make two cakes which I split into so four right
36:4436 minutes, 44 secondswas like 300 bucks and and and period and then you know I’ll show you some stuff too. I I’ve seen I’ve been all over your Yeah. Yeah.
36:5336 minutes, 53 secondsSo I I know what it takes. So that’s why I like, okay, there’s a certain level of commitment and maniacal thinking that has to goes into that [ __ ]37:0137 minutes, 1 secondYeah. And and I’m thinking about all the all the pictures that wasn’t taken. So to get
37:0737 minutes, 7 seconds[laughter]37:0837 minutes, 8 secondsto get to hung her head in shame. Yeah.
37:1137 minutes, 11 secondsTo get to the to get to the to get to the p to get to that picture. I know there was like a billion takes. I’m like, okay.
37:1837 minutes, 18 secondsShe’s been You don’t just wake up with that. That’s, you know, there’s some hours that you have to put into to that. Also, I think like so I sound
37:2637 minutes, 26 secondslike I am a zealot about like homeschooling. I am
37:3337 minutes, 33 secondsnot. But I think realizing like my interest in flower cakes, how much botany I’ve learned about where certain flowers grow in Korea because my phone
37:4237 minutes, 42 secondswould start recognizing the frosting flowers is real. You know what I mean?
37:4537 minutes, 45 secondsAnd then tell me the That’s next level. I mean it. That’s next level.
37:4837 minutes, 48 secondsAlso, I was going to bring you a cake today and I’m so good I didn’t cuz I didn’t realize how hard you cake.
37:5237 minutes, 52 secondsNo, no, no, You should here. I got to No, I mean you listen now. You can’t you can’t tell me that she was going to bring [laughter] some cake and didn’t
37:5937 minutes, 59 secondsbring no cake and now I got to sit here cakeless thinking about Don’t worry about it. When whenever we make this exchange for this album. No, no, no. I’m Yeah, I got you. Don’t worry about it.
38:0838 minutes, 8 secondsYou don’t don’t feel a need to. But I’m definitely going to bring it.
38:1138 minutes, 11 secondsAll right. I know that we we are short on time. We can First off, we can do this for hours. Clearly.
38:1738 minutes, 17 secondsClearly. Um, and I I I just have to really I’m going to soak up every morsel, every heartbeat that I have with
38:2538 minutes, 25 secondsyou. But before I let you get out of here, we’re going to play a little game called the lightning round. Okay.
38:3038 minutes, 30 secondsAll right. So, I’m going to ask you a series of questions. Okay.
38:3338 minutes, 33 secondsAnd just first thing that pops in your head. Okay. I know this is going to be hard for you.
38:3838 minutes, 38 secondsAll right. [laughter] You can. It’s already hard for me. All right. Here we go.
38:4238 minutes, 42 secondsOne song you wish you wrote. Uh, I’m gonna say Lauren Hills miseducation. What’s that song called?
38:5438 minutes, 54 seconds[ __ ] There’s a All of them are great. The the that thing you do. Thank you. Yeah, that thing you do. Um, most overrated emotion.
39:0339 minutes, 3 secondsOoh, I’m going to say joy. Joy is overrated. Damn, that’s a dark.
39:1139 minutes, 11 secondsListen, [laughter] you know what? You told me I couldn’t think about it. Do I think that? I have no idea. I have no idea.
39:1739 minutes, 17 secondsHey, first response that came out. We gonna go with it. Okay. One thing you always consume before performing.
39:2439 minutes, 24 secondsMaybe not always, but often. Little nip of whiskey. What kind of whiskey?
39:2939 minutes, 29 secondsUsually whatever they could get me the bags. [laughter] Black velvet it is. Okay. Hurry.
39:3639 minutes, 36 secondsMaker’s Mark or Knob Creek will do.
39:3839 minutes, 38 secondsThere you go. There you go. Better fuel for art. Love or resentment?
39:4439 minutes, 44 secondsOh, I didn’t think that was the second one. Comment. Resentment. Probably. I think great feelings are best lived and often don’t need to be recorded where
39:5239 minutes, 52 secondsit’s in conflict that we tend to try to sort stuff out.
39:5439 minutes, 54 secondsAbsolutely. If your brain had a house band, what genre would they play?
39:5939 minutes, 59 secondsOoh. I mean, if the roots were available, I’d ask if [laughter] they could pop in. I know they’re busy. Yeah, they’re slightly busy.
40:0740 minutes, 7 secondsOkay. And a food that feels like Minneapolis. Oo, sweet corn. Sweet corn. Sweet corn.
40:1440 minutes, 14 secondsYeah. It has to be from Has to be from the state fair, though.
40:1640 minutes, 16 secondsYou know, I g I grew I [laughter] grew up myself in the garden. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. You can keep the art. Okay.
40:2340 minutes, 23 secondsBut you have to give back the pain that made it. Are you taking that deal? No.
40:3040 minutes, 30 secondsNo. I think I think pain doesn’t always make us better, but I think it makes us humble
40:3840 minutes, 38 secondsoften. And I think that it’s through suffering that I’ve learned very often to detect the suffering of others and I hope to give them some allowance for it.
40:4840 minutes, 48 secondsThat’s the the human side, the being the humanity. Yeah. Um everybody that can hear the sound of our voices and see
40:5640 minutes, 56 secondsyour lovely face. Tell them where they can catch up and keep up on all things des.
41:0441 minutes, 4 seconds[laughter]41:0541 minutes, 5 secondsIf you’re interested in checking out any of the new music or the upcoming tour dates, you can check me out on Instagram
41:1241 minutes, 12 secondsat Desa D SA. And my secret cake account is soft power cakes.
41:1941 minutes, 19 secondsSoft power cakes.
41:2141 minutes, 21 secondsAll cakes all the time. [laughter] Also, desawwanda.com. Okay. You got to make sure you keep up on all her things there.
41:3041 minutes, 30 secondsUm, you are an amazing amazing human.
41:3341 minutes, 33 secondsyou have such such light that comes and radiates from you. Um I adore you and we we got some restaurant hopping to do at some other time and you owe me a cake.
41:4441 minutes, 44 seconds[laughter]41:4541 minutes, 45 secondsI’m trying to get a trade going.
41:4641 minutes, 46 secondsOkay. Well, no, we we we get we get it popping. We get it popping. All right.
41:5141 minutes, 51 secondsListen, this has been another great episode of the Taste Music podcast show.
41:5641 minutes, 56 secondsI stuttered that. But if you find value in conversations like this, please like, comment, follow, tag [music]42:0442 minutes, 4 secondsDesa. She maybe has a cake in there for you somewhere. Maybe not. I’ll tell you how one was, though. Um, until next time, this has been the Taste Music here
42:1242 minutes, 12 secondsFood Podcast Show. I’m Ed Porter. Peace.