Chef Joe Sasto: Pasta, Breaking Rules & Reimagining Italian Food

0:000 secondsReal quick before we dive in, if you’re a regular here, consider pulling up a seat to the Patreon. The seat, the table, the kitchen. Three tiers starting at just five bucks a month. Built for
0:088 secondsthe people who don’t just listen, they feel it. patreon.com/tmhf podcast show. Link is always in the show notes.
0:2121 secondsWelcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of the Taste Music Show.
0:2929 seconds[music]0:2929 secondsI am your host Ed Porter.
0:3434 secondsThis is the place for full music and culture. And how do y’all connect?
0:4040 secondsOh dude, I’m going to watch it now. I think it’s dope.
0:4343 secondsWelcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of the Taste Music here Food Podcast Show. I am your host Ed Porter and this is the destination for
0:5151 secondsfood, music, and culture and how they all connect. My guest today is a very familiar face for most you
1:001 minutepeople. You guys will definitely recognize him or his mustache. What? One of the two things most likely. But
1:071 minute, 7 secondsbefore we jump in, I’m going to attempt to pay this gentleman the proper respect he so greatly deserves. So, here we go.
1:181 minute, 18 secondsThere are chefs who follow tradition.
1:201 minute, 20 secondsThere are chefs who study tradition. And then there are chefs who learn a tradition deeply enough to know exactly
1:271 minute, 27 secondswhen to bend it, stretch it, remix it, and turn it into something the world has never tasted before. Today’s guest is
1:351 minute, 35 secondsone of those chefs. He built his foundation in some of the most respected kitchens in the country, working through
1:421 minute, 42 secondsMichelin level discipline, precision, pressure, and repetition. But instead of letting that world make him rigid, he
1:501 minute, 50 secondsfound a way to make technique feel playful.
1:541 minute, 54 secondsYet he took pasta, one of the most sacred, emotional, and coastally protected foods in the world, and treated it like a language that can
2:032 minutes, 3 secondsstill learn new slang. You may know him from Bravo’s Top Chef, Food Network’s Tournament of Champions, Chopped, or
2:102 minutes, 10 secondsfrom his signature handle mustache. You may know him from the way he makes pasta feel alive online. You may know him from
2:172 minutes, 17 secondsTantos, the puffed pasta chip that asked, “Why can’t pasta be a snack?” or from Breaking the Rules, his cookbook
2:252 minutes, 25 secondsthat gives people permission to cook Italian food with confidence, joy, and a little bit of rebellion. But today, we’re going beyond pasta because on
2:342 minutes, 34 secondsTaste Music here, food, food is not just what we eat. Food is what we consume.
2:392 minutes, 39 secondsMusic is not just what we hear. Music is the vibration we live by. and his story is about what happens when memory,
2:472 minutes, 47 secondstechnique, culture, humor, creativity, and ambition all rolled into the same dough. Welcome to the Taste Music Here Food Podcast Show, Chef Joe Sasto.
3:003 minutesWow, what an introduction. I need you to give my eulogy as well. [laughter] That was fantastic.
3:083 minutes, 8 secondsWhat’s up, man? How you doing, bro? Chef, thank you. For sure. For sure, man. Listen, bro.
3:133 minutes, 13 secondsthis. We talked about this. It’s been over a year now. We thought about doing this. Yeah. It’s been over doing the podcast. Yeah. Doing the podcast. I know. We’re both very busy people.
3:213 minutes, 21 secondsYes, sir. Yes, sir. But I’m glad we finally found the time. Absolutely.
3:263 minutes, 26 secondsIt’s always a good conversation when you and I get together.
3:303 minutes, 30 secondsYes, sir. Yes, sir. So, let let’s jump right in, man. Um let let’s talk about balancing tradition
3:373 minutes, 37 secondsand you know not letting it trap you because I think the thing about you that I I love the most is you are deeply
3:473 minutes, 47 secondsrooted in tradition. However, you don’t let it box you in and you are like the remix king is
3:553 minutes, 55 secondsand that I mean everything about you, you know, you’re a throwback from the past, but everything is very much freshened for today’s uh t. So, talk to
4:034 minutes, 3 secondsme about your approach to just life in general, man, as a as a as a chef and just your approach to to all the endeavors.
4:134 minutes, 13 secondsI I think it could really be summed up and I wasn’t sure what my answer was going to be. I was thinking about it as you were asking the question, but then
4:204 minutes, 20 secondsyou hit the what is my approach to life in general and I think that could apply to everything from cooking to life is don’t take yourself too seriously.
4:324 minutes, 32 secondsYeah.
4:324 minutes, 32 secondsDon’t take anything too seriously. Like it’s just food. It’s just cooking. It’s
4:404 minutes, 40 secondsjust whatever. I mean, and you know, yes, we only get like one opportunity of that we know of for life, [laughter] but
4:484 minutes, 48 secondsI think that’s even more reason to not take it too seriously. Yeah.
4:524 minutes, 52 secondsBecause there’s so many things you don’t have control over. Yeah.
4:564 minutes, 56 secondsDon’t let little thing Don’t get don’t, you know, don’t sweat the small stuff.
5:005 minutesDon’t get bent out of shape. You know, I think that’s so important and it just then can trickle down into everything else you do.
5:075 minutes, 7 secondsYeah. when it comes to cooking, when it comes to food, when it comes to these so-called rules, don’t take anything too seriously, you
5:145 minutes, 14 secondsknow, have a good time, enjoy it, and that will translate into then all of the things that you do. And you know, there
5:225 minutes, 22 secondsthere’s so much more and so much like respect that like goes into tradition and that goes into so many of the things
5:295 minutes, 29 secondsthat I do. And I’m not like breaking tradition for tradition’s sake. And I
5:365 minutes, 36 secondsthink a lot of people do that to try to be creative or to try to be relevant. And that’s not what I’m trying
5:445 minutes, 44 secondsto do. And I think that’s the wrong way to approach it, right?
5:475 minutes, 47 secondsIt’s more so about being able to understand where things came from to give them new life, to give them new
5:565 minutes, 56 secondsexcitement, to give them a new way of of looking at things.
5:595 minutes, 59 secondsAbsolutely. And you understand like I do like I I I too have been in Michelin star kitchens and they’re they’re pretty stoic, right? So when people when people
6:086 minutes, 8 secondshear and see you it’s it’s a breath of fresh air because you know that’s just not the way it goes. Like it’s just it’s
6:156 minutes, 15 secondsjust not the the the way you expect a chef of your pedigree to to to to
6:226 minutes, 22 secondspresent or act. However, not only that being such a refreshing thing, again, you’re coming with the the base
6:316 minutes, 31 secondsknowledge of knowing you first of all, before you can break the rules, you have to know the rules. And that’s [laughter] I always say that. I always say that that’s part of the battle. Absolutely.
6:406 minutes, 40 secondsYes. So, your your your approach is is is for a lack of better words is very
6:476 minutes, 47 secondsrespectful of tradition. However, I’m going to try to present them in a new, unique, fresh way. Um, what what was the
6:566 minutes, 56 secondsfirst dish you remember that made you feel something before you understood technique?
7:037 minutes, 3 secondsOh, interesting. That’s an interesting question.
7:077 minutes, 7 secondsThe first dish I felt something, you know, I I don’t know. I wish I don’t
7:147 minutes, 14 secondsknow if I have like the most interesting answer, but I rather like because I want I I feel like I want to
7:227 minutes, 22 secondsthink harder about that one. Like the first dish that really kind of me had that weight.
7:267 minutes, 26 secondsDon’t worry, bro. There’s going to be there’s going to be plenty of other questions. You got to think hard.
7:297 minutes, 29 secondsBrain buster. Get ready, guys. Everybody lock in. Okay, [laughter] get ready for this. We’re going for it. Um, let’s go.
7:357 minutes, 35 secondsThis I think one of the first dishes that I one of the first things I cooked this was in high school. I was probably I don’t know 15, 16. That’s how old you
7:437 minutes, 43 secondsare in high school, I think. And uh we, you know, we’d have f friends would come over, we’d get out of school, come back to my house, and like we would want
7:507 minutes, 50 secondslunch snacks, and I would make a buffalo chicken wrap for me and my friends.
7:557 minutes, 55 secondsAnd I remember it was like the precooked, pre-slliced, like thick cubes, rectangles of grilled chicken with like the fake grill mark on them.
8:058 minutes, 5 seconds[laughter]8:068 minutes, 6 secondsUm, and I’d take those, Frank’s Buffalo sauce, butter, put in the microwave. I’d only heat them up in the microwave with
8:138 minutes, 13 secondslike a napkin over the paper towel over the top so it didn’t splatter and I get my mom.
8:188 minutes, 18 secondsWho wants to clean the microwave? Yeah, exactly.
8:208 minutes, 20 secondsRight. I don’t have to clean [laughter] the microwave. And then I would put a pan on the stove and a flour tortilla and we would get like the the uh the
8:298 minutes, 29 secondsparcooked flour tortillas from Costco, you know, the translucent ones. So like it was almost like it was making a fresh flour tortilla almost. Absolutely.
8:368 minutes, 36 secondsThe shredded four cheese Mexican blend.
8:398 minutes, 39 secondsM um and then buffalo or and blue cheese or ranch depending on who was, you know, you got to choose at the Sastto House.
8:478 minutes, 47 secondsUh I’m a blue cheese person for the record. Ranch as a place in time. Same same with buffalo or wings.
8:528 minutes, 52 seconds[laughter]8:538 minutes, 53 secondsUh and then wrap it, roll it up into like this big like tube, meat tube of [laughter] flowery buffaloy goodness. Uh
9:019 minutes, 1 secondand like my friends would get stoked on it, I would get stoked on it. And it was like a thing that like then like people knew like, “Oh man, Joe’s like buffalo
9:099 minutes, 9 secondschicken wraps.” We had Joe’s buffalo chicken wraps. [laughter] And you know, looking back, I I wasn’t cooking. I was assembling a couple of ingredients. But
9:179 minutes, 17 secondsyou know, the love, the thought, the care, the attention to detail, listen, that I put into assembling those ingredients, you know, I wasn’t
9:259 minutes, 25 secondsrevolutionizing the wheel. I was making a buffalo chicken back, but it was something we all talked about and we all got excited about.
9:319 minutes, 31 secondsWe were creating We were creating memories. There’s dudes walking around. It was food we could get excited about.
9:379 minutes, 37 secondsExactly. And that people I I guarantee you they all remember that.
9:429 minutes, 42 secondsI know at least one of them does. You know, I don’t keep in touch with many of my friends from high school anymore.
9:489 minutes, 48 secondsUh but there was one I spoke to, you know, last time I talked a couple years ago maybe at this point, but I’ve been I’m I was successful at that point. Yeah.
9:559 minutes, 55 secondsAnd he was like, “Dude, I still remember your Buffalo chicken restaurant.” He asked me if I remembered. Do [laughter] you remember though? like, “Do you remember when we like we go to your
10:0310 minutes, 3 secondshouse after school?” And I was like, “Hell yeah, dude.” [laughter] Hey, that’s that’s crazy. That’s crazy.
10:0910 minutes, 9 secondsWhat What’s a culinary rule that chefs defend like religion, but secretly it needs to die?
10:1610 minutes, 16 secondsOh, this is I This one is slowly dying, but I still hear it occasionally. And like I don’t know. I almost feel like
10:2510 minutes, 25 secondsthis is like oh, like red flag, you’re a boomer type of like answer. [laughter] When chefs still say seafood and or seafood and cheese don’t go together.
10:3310 minutes, 33 secondsYeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that’s what that is definitely that’s insanity. Like red flag. Hello. Yeah.
10:3910 minutes, 39 secondsLike why not? Has anyone ever had lobster mac and cheese? Like that’s the gateway drug to seafood and cheese. Yeah. Yeah.
10:4610 minutes, 46 secondsAnd then like I mean like any anything salmon Alfredo like Yeah. It’s it’s it is dying slowly. And that’s definitely
10:5410 minutes, 54 secondsone that I mean we’re all taught. Seafood and cheese don’t go together. That’s That’s just what Uhhuh. It’s like one of those things
11:0311 minutes, 3 secondsyou’re taught. Yes. You know, like stop, drop, and roll. [laughter] Crossing the street. Seafood and cheese doesn’t go together. Exactly.
11:1011 minutes, 10 secondsAnd you’re just like, “Oh, I know. I know. [laughter] This is like this is going to be a real issue in life. I got to remember this.”
11:1811 minutes, 18 secondsAbsolutely. Absolutely. Okay, let’s get into a segment. This is cold truth. Uh, every story tells a every flavor tells a
11:2511 minutes, 25 secondsstory. Every story holds a truth. This is cold truth presented by just fruit sorbet atilier. The new standard in sorbet. Pure fruit. Thoughtfully crafted
11:3311 minutes, 33 secondsfruit at its most honest. Chef driven small batch sorbets made with real fruit. Organic ingredients and flavor
11:4011 minutes, 40 secondsdesigned to hit like a record at the perfect time. If you were in studio, we would be tasting sorbet. But since you I love I love that we just like dropped in a promo there. Yeah. Big fan of sob.
11:5111 minutes, 51 secondsI don’t I’m like now I’m thinking I was like, have I tried this so bad?
11:5411 minutes, 54 secondsNo. No. I’m gonna You know, I’m gonna make sure you do though. But I need to try the sorbet now. Now that it’s part of the show on the record that I need samples of this sorbet.
12:0312 minutes, 3 secondsI got you. No, I got you. I got you. But so what we’re going to do is typically what we would do if you was in studio, but we’re going to do it the same way.
12:0912 minutes, 9 secondsI’m going to ask you a question that is going to require your your pure unadulterated truth. Just how you see it. How you see it. And and that’s that.
12:1812 minutes, 18 secondsSo great.
12:1912 minutes, 19 secondsThe question is this. What is one thing about food television that viewers completely misunderstand?
12:3012 minutes, 30 secondsA lot of people think it’s fake. It’s not. It’s not. The clock is real. It’s real.
12:3512 minutes, 35 secondsUm that the clock is real. The cooking is real. The time from like finding out the challenge to doing the cooking is real.
12:4412 minutes, 44 secondsMhm. The only thing that I would say is not real or that people don’t get and doesn’t translate at all in almost every
12:5312 minutes, 53 secondsshow except for one person’s there’s a good like 30 minute minimum lag before the judges taste anything.
13:0113 minutes, 1 secondYeah. Yes. And and this is a great one to to notice. So, so anytime you see or you see a chef when
13:0913 minutes, 9 secondsthey especially if they make something that has ice cream or anything that that’s that’s not going to stand. Yeah.
13:1413 minutes, 14 secondsThere is a definite 30 minute lag between tastings and revealing of the results. Um Oh, well not even revealing. I’m talking
13:2313 minutes, 23 secondsabout from tasting to judge or cooking to judging. For sure. For sure. And Oh, yeah. Even more of a lag time.
13:2813 minutes, 28 secondsFrom from tasting to results could be hours. Yes. For sure. Top chef.
13:3313 minutes, 33 secondsYeah. It was like six or seven hours to be [laughter] on ice after judges table. Like that took forever and
13:4113 minutes, 41 secondsand that was just miserable pacing, walking around like it’s purposeful. You’re tired, exhausted.
13:4713 minutes, 47 secondsBut uh that I I would say I want to give props. Shout out to Bobby Fle.
13:5213 minutes, 52 secondsMhm. because he’s the one one, you know, producer, chef, um, that has his own set of like production
14:0114 minutes, 1 secondguidelines where normally like if there’s three judges, you make four plates and one of those plates gets sent off to
14:1014 minutes, 10 secondsart department for beauty and the other three plates go to the judges at the judges table. Bobby does it where you make four plates.
14:2114 minutes, 21 secondsTwo of them go back to the judges standing like in a secret room right behind the stage as soon as you finish plating.
14:2814 minutes, 28 secondsWow. Yeah, that’s good.
14:2914 minutes, 29 secondsAnd the judges taste, they deliberate, they decide the winner right then and there immediately. Gotcha.
14:3614 minutes, 36 secondsAnd then they clean up. There’s a 30 minute 45 minute lag. And the other plate that goes on the judge’s table and they’re tasting it. They’ve already
14:4314 minutes, 43 secondsdecided the winner. That’s not their first time tasting it. Got you.
14:4714 minutes, 47 secondsAnd they’re just repeating what they said to the producers as they were deliberating and coming to their decision. Yeah.
14:5314 minutes, 53 secondsAnd [clears throat] so, shout out, props to Bobby for Yeah.
14:5714 minutes, 57 secondshaving the integ, you know, keeping the integrity of the food and the competition and, you know, you can tell he’s a chef. Chef. Yeah. For sure. For sure.
15:0515 minutes, 5 secondsOnly a chef Yeah. would do. Yeah. Put the food Make the food the focal point cuz that’s what we’re here for.
15:1015 minutes, 10 secondsUh, make sure that’s important. The only other time that also like he was probably like if someone’s gonna beat me Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Absolutely.
15:1815 minutes, 18 secondsIt better be that good.
15:1915 minutes, 19 secondsAbsolutely. Absolutely. I The only other time that um in my experience in in in TV is that the clock ever stops and it
15:2815 minutes, 28 secondshas to be something horrendous. So I had a guy almost sever his finger. That’s the only time. Yeah.
15:3415 minutes, 34 secondsA little cut is fine. You know, you throw a finger cut on that and you you know grab the towel, put the finger cut, the medics come, they they backs you up.
15:4115 minutes, 41 secondslike almost severing the finger was uh like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We going to have to stop.
15:4515 minutes, 45 secondsThat’s crazy. There was a I mean there was a a a woman I forget her name on like the
15:5415 minutes, 54 secondsplaying rounds of Tournament of Champions one year that right after like the clock saw, she like bent over to pick up her bus tub to
16:0216 minutes, 2 secondsget all the ingredients and split the whole back of her jumper [laughter] open.
16:0816 minutes, 8 secondsOh. Oh no. And they just they gave her like another apron to back. [laughter] Now you got some ventilation
16:1516 minutes, 15 secondsand like keep going. We’ll figure it out later. It’s a ventilation. That’s hilarious.
16:1916 minutes, 19 secondsYeah. Hey, listen guys. Not Yeah. Let’s keep it moving. [laughter] Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. No, that’s true.
16:2516 minutes, 25 secondsThey don’t they don’t ever stop the clock. No.
16:2816 minutes, 28 secondsUm I have Yeah. Uh it’s it’s pretty wild.
16:3316 minutes, 33 secondsYeah, it is. It is. It is a wild thing, man. Okay, that was cold truths presented by just fruit sorbet atilier where flavors are cold but the
16:4216 minutes, 42 secondsconversations are honest. For more info head to www.j justfruits sorbet.com.
16:4716 minutes, 47 secondsOkay, on this show we always talk about food as uh food and music as energy. You
16:5416 minutes, 54 secondsknow, food is what we consume. Music is the vibration we tune into. Pasta has a rhythm as well. So there’s kneading,
17:0317 minutes, 3 secondsthere’s resting, rolling, cutting, shaping, saucing. Uh, in my opinion, is very rhythmic.
17:1017 minutes, 10 secondsDo you agree?
17:1217 minutes, 12 secondsAbsolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there’s a there’s almost like a a repetitive therapeutic Yeah. rhythm to it all.
17:2217 minutes, 22 secondsEspecially just during the making process from the kneading. Y and like you know like professional regular
17:2917 minutes, 29 secondspast poss who will like do it regularly and make pasta every day kind of like it’s almost like they like find their rhythm where to plant their
17:3817 minutes, 38 secondsfeet on the floor how to settle into the table because you’re going to be standing there for six seven eight hours in the same spot
17:4617 minutes, 46 secondswhere you’re almost like able to balance your weight between the table and your heels and your toes and pushing back and forward and moving around and being able
17:5517 minutes, 55 secondsto really settle in and find a rhythm and find a pace and I think that’s like
18:0218 minutes, 2 secondsone of the most enjoyable things pasta making.
18:0518 minutes, 5 secondsYeah. And that and because of that rhythmic process and because of that rhythmic process and and the rhythm of it and the familiarity of it, that’s how uh the person that is,
18:1418 minutes, 14 secondsyou know, used to making it, it’s all touch and feel. So they understand that where they hit the sweet spot based on how that rhythm is going and and the the
18:2318 minutes, 23 secondsdough is bouncing back. Okay. With that being said, Michelin kitchens have a certain tempo. Competition kitchens have another. Social media has a completely
18:3118 minutes, 31 secondsdifferent. Which tempo feels most natural to you at this point? Oh, uh, competition cooking for sure.
18:4118 minutes, 41 secondsIt’s a bug, uh, a disease of an addiction. [laughter] I think at this point like in massochism
18:4818 minutes, 48 secondsin the most like brutal way [laughter] uh where you know I think they’re they’re all very different paces like
18:5518 minutes, 55 secondsyou said social media cooking is a very slow pace. Yes.
18:5918 minutes, 59 secondsIt’s very unstructured. It could take all day or it could take 30 minutes.
19:0419 minutes, 4 secondsYou’re often by yourself. [laughter] You can edit out yourself or make changes or whatever it may be and do those adjustments in real time.
19:1219 minutes, 12 secondsYeah. And you know, even social media cooking, if you’re not feeling it that day, yeah, maybe you film the next day. It’s fine.
19:1819 minutes, 18 seconds[laughter]19:1919 minutes, 19 secondsUh, I would say Michelin Kitchens are somewhere in between.
19:2219 minutes, 22 secondsYeah, they’re rigid. They are intense. They’re purposeful.
19:2819 minutes, 28 secondsUm, and but there’s not a lot of wiggle room. No. You know, they they they’re they have their boundaries.
19:3519 minutes, 35 secondsThey have their definitions and they keep to them and they’re long and they’re grueling.
19:4119 minutes, 41 secondsYeah. And I think that’s about, you know, the often hardest part about it.
19:4619 minutes, 46 secondsAnd competition cooking, I think what a lot of people don’t realize, chefs included, that are like just starting to compete on a show or like they’re doing
19:5319 minutes, 53 secondsTop Chef for the first time or whatever it is, competition cooking is a completely different style of cooking. Yeah.
20:0020 minutesIt’s not like cooking at home. It’s not like cooking for friends or family. It’s not like cooking in a restaurant. It’s not like food you would regularly serve
20:0820 minutes, 8 secondsanywhere, right? It it doesn’t have boundaries.
20:1120 minutes, 11 secondsYou can make anything. Even if it’s not your sty, you know, like I don’t have to make Italian food. I can make a curry. I can make dumplings. I can make a
20:2020 minutes, 20 secondstostada. And it’s okay. It’s a competition. You only had 30 minutes.
20:2420 minutes, 24 secondsAnd that’s what the ingredients spoke to you, right?
20:2620 minutes, 26 secondsIt’s it’s not as defined. It’s not as rigid. And I think a lot of people put themselves in a box and they’re like, I’m an Italian chef. I don’t make Italian food. And you’re shooting yourself in the foot.
20:3620 minutes, 36 secondsYeah. And on top of that, the type of food you’re cooking. And you don’t realize this as a competition chef until you start judging. And I’m fortunate
20:4320 minutes, 43 secondsenough now I got to judge regularly. So I get like both sides of the spectrum.
20:4820 minutes, 48 secondsJudges are eating a lot of food all day long. Mhm.
20:5120 minutes, 51 secondsAnd they’re only going to take one, maybe two bites of your dish max.
20:5620 minutes, 56 secondsSo it could be overly salty, overly spicy, overly seasoned. It needs to be acidic. It needs to be impactful. It
21:0321 minutes, 3 secondsneeds to be memorable. It needs to carry all of those elements of flavor in one bite from like the freshness to the acid to
21:1221 minutes, 12 secondsthe puree, like all of that. Just jam-pack as much of it in there as you can. Flavor bomb. Yeah. Flavor bomb.
21:2021 minutes, 20 secondsMhm.
21:2121 minutes, 21 secondsAnd I, you know, I hate to say and like generalize this statement, but that’s
21:2721 minutes, 27 secondsoften why like Asian cooking does so well, cuz it’s so impactful in flavors. Asian cooking, Indian cooking.
21:3621 minutes, 36 secondsYep.
21:3721 minutes, 37 secondsBecause it’s so many flavors, especially when you lean it against something like Mediterranean. Yeah.
21:4221 minutes, 42 secondsYep. Yep. Y who wants parsley and lemon and olive oil versus vaduvon and [laughter] coconut milk and fish sauce and chilies
21:5121 minutes, 51 secondsand like come on there’s no like that’s one bite is going to be more memorable than the other.
21:5821 minutes, 58 secondsAbsolutely. Absolutely. What what dish from your entire life as as both a chef and just as an eater
22:0722 minutes, 7 secondsfeels like the chorus you keep returning to the what I keep returning to the chorus. So you know how like your
22:1522 minutes, 15 secondsfavorite the chorus. The chorus. Yeah.
22:1722 minutes, 17 secondsUm I think I think this one’s pretty easy. I think uh I would say probably the dish like I enjoy the the pasta dish
22:2422 minutes, 24 secondsI enjoy eating the most that I make for people the most that was one of the first dishes that I learned
22:3122 minutes, 31 secondsto make like from start to finish is and I don’t want to say traditional because I don’t use the word traditional
22:3822 minutes, 38 secondswhich we can talk about later [laughter] the classical version I like it of um annoli deline from Pedmont
22:4722 minutes, 47 secondsokay braze meats usually ve or beef, pork, chicken or rabbit all brazed down together with mirropa, whatever selection your heart desires.
22:5822 minutes, 58 secondsOnions, carrots, leaks, fennel, some tomato product. Uh, all cooked down, brazed into chicken stock or beeftock or
23:0623 minutes, 6 secondswhatever stock you have. All that meat comes out once it’s falling apart, tender, gets ground together with all the veggies that it was cooking with. So
23:1423 minutes, 14 secondsall remarried, ground up, mixed in with a ton of reano, so a little bit of nutmeg, and that becomes the filling.
23:2123 minutes, 21 secondsAnd then you take all that brazing liquid, reduce it down, and that becomes a little pan sauce with butter and sage.
23:2923 minutes, 29 secondsPasta park pasta parcels sealed with a pinch. That’s what annulode deline means.
23:3523 minutes, 35 secondsThen just lightly glazed in that buttery, sagey, beefy, meaty ragu sauce. That’s just like gh.
23:4223 minutes, 42 secondsYeah, that sounds delicious.
23:4423 minutes, 44 secondsAnd it’s crazy because like that’s the one dish that I will I I have no desire to riff on.
23:5223 minutes, 52 secondsYeah.
23:5223 minutes, 52 secondsI think it it the original version is so much better than any of these like butternut squash with tortilla cheese
24:0024 minutesand corn angel. It’s like [laughter] And so you don’t see or ever find any you don’t see that original version
24:0824 minutes, 8 secondsalmost anywhere here in the States. Most people have never had it. Yeah.
24:1224 minutes, 12 secondsAnd so like that’s one of the reasons I like serving it. Yeah.
24:1624 minutes, 16 secondsIs it’s it’s new to some people even though it’s been done for, you know, a hundred years, right?
24:2224 minutes, 22 secondsIt’s their first time trying it. So, you know, in theory, it is a new dish. But, uh, you know, I feel like yes, there’s nothing wrong with street corn ravioli.
24:3324 minutes, 33 secondsMhm.
24:3424 minutes, 34 secondsBut don’t put it in anote. Like I like I don’t do I’m not going to do that. Or if you do like have the real annual too and
24:4224 minutes, 42 secondsdo it in anal. I just that’s the one I always return to that I love making. I learned how to make that filling
24:4924 minutes, 49 secondsas like an AM prep cook. I was the morning butcher at Katonia which is like Quinc’s sister restaurant in San Francisco.
24:5524 minutes, 55 secondsAnd when I like I staged at Quint I did my stager for a couple of days and they were like great you have a job but we don’t have a spot for you yet.
25:0325 minutes, 3 secondsSo will will you work at Katonia in the morning? They needed an AM butcher. So, I was like, “Okay, I’ll learn how to make all of Katonia’s pasta fillings.
25:1125 minutes, 11 secondsI’ll learn how to make like the dough, you know? I just learned like the processes of the restaurant, how Chef Tus like to do things. I learned a [ __ ] ton about sausage making and breaking
25:1925 minutes, 19 secondsdown like primals. And I realized I hate that part of it. I [laughter] do not like in going which is like I just that whole rhythmic Yeah.
25:2925 minutes, 29 secondsrepetitive process of seaming out muscles, removing silver skin, cleaning meat. Hate it. Do not enjoy that at all.
25:3625 minutes, 36 secondsYeah, but I have no problem spending eight hours standing there making tortillini.
25:4025 minutes, 40 secondsThere you go. I mean, everybody has a thing. [laughter] And I forgot we had the we No, I didn’t forget. We have uh we talked about this
25:4825 minutes, 48 secondsbefore, our Bayer Bay Area connections and uh and because I was in the Bay for 11 years from 03 to 2015. Um
25:5725 minutes, 57 secondsYeah, we were there around the same time. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
26:0026 minutesSo, this is a good segue. know, everybody has an opinion about what real is, you know, or or I’ll use the word authentic because we we’re going to talk about it now.
26:1026 minutes, 10 secondsWhat is real and what is wrong and what grandma would or would not approve of from your stance on not using the word
26:1926 minutes, 19 secondsauthentic. Let’s talk about that and why why is that a a uh a thing for you? Traditional. Yes, traditional.
26:2626 minutes, 26 secondsTraditional is the word I don’t like to use. I try not to use the word traditional. Okay.
26:3026 minutes, 30 secondsAnd the reason being is like by definition tradition is just something done by someone over and over, right? We could all agree on that.
26:4026 minutes, 40 secondsLike a very generalized definition. And so if every Thanksgiving
26:4626 minutes, 46 secondsI eat a bowl of Lucky Charms [laughter] before my turkey.
26:5226 minutes, 52 secondsThat’s it could be a I’ve been doing it for 10 years.
26:5426 minutes, 54 seconds[laughter]26:5526 minutes, 55 secondsNo one can tell me that’s not a Thanksgiving tradition. Hit fast.
26:5826 minutes, 58 secondsYeah. It sound It’s not your Thanksgiving tradition, but that’s a traditional Thanksgiving dish. Yep. Yeah.
27:0527 minutes, 5 secondsLucky Charms. And [laughter] people will be like, “What? That’s not traditional.” Uhuh. Uhuh. Uh, no. It is by definition.
27:1227 minutes, 12 secondsIf I’ve been doing it in my family for 25 years since I was a kid, you know, y that’s more traditional than some of the things you’ve been, you know, I’ve been
27:2027 minutes, 20 secondsdoing it for longer than, you know, and so that idea of like what is traditional, especially then when you like you look at any cuisine or culture,
27:2927 minutes, 29 secondsthis grandma’s doing it different than that grandma. Every grandma does it different.
27:3427 minutes, 34 secondsSo like what even is then traditional because they’re making yoki two different ways? Yep. She’s using potato.
27:4227 minutes, 42 secondsShe’s using semolina. There, you know, there’s not a traditional version of there’s the version that you’ve heard
27:4927 minutes, 49 secondsabout the longest, but that doesn’t make your version more traditional than mine.
27:5427 minutes, 54 secondsAnd so I just try to eliminate that word completely from my vocabulary because yeah, understood. It doesn’t serve any purpose.
28:0228 minutes, 2 secondsUnderstood. Okay, this is a great segue for this. Italian food in America is already a remix. We can agree to that.
28:0728 minutes, 7 secondsIt’s it’s already a remix because this is not what you would get traditionally in in Italy, you know, uh uh immigration, adaptation, abundance, nostalgia.
28:1828 minutes, 18 secondsDo you think people forget that authenticity has always been moving?
28:2328 minutes, 23 secondsBecause every for us to get to where we are now, there’s already had to been some growth and some Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s
28:3128 minutes, 31 secondslike that’s always part of my argument when people are like, “Oh, this isn’t authentic. this isn’t traditional or
28:3828 minutes, 38 secondswhatever they would say. It’s like how did we even get like how is cuisine or food or ideas or anything out in any
28:4728 minutes, 47 secondsrealm of arts and crafts Yeah.
28:5028 minutes, 50 secondssupposed to evolve and get better and change over time without breaking rules, without doing something different, without trying something new.
28:5828 minutes, 58 secondsYeah.
28:5828 minutes, 58 secondsIt won’t. We be still eating stale British biscuits [laughter] and tea beans and toast.
29:0729 minutes, 7 secondsAbsolutely. Okay. So, in in your in your opinion, when people are saying authenticity is is what is what they’re saying is it authenticity about
29:1529 minutes, 15 secondsingredients, technique, intention, memory, or something completely else.
29:2129 minutes, 21 secondsI think it’s a combination of all of those.
29:2329 minutes, 23 secondsOkay. And I think depending on the context that combination like how much of each can change.
29:3129 minutes, 31 secondsYeah.
29:3229 minutes, 32 secondsYou know, like if you’re talking about what’s authentic grandma enchiladas or authentic nona
29:4129 minutes, 41 secondslasagna is going to be different depending on like whose grandma you’re referring to. Uh the where she came from.
29:5029 minutes, 50 secondsuh the type of ingredients might not matter in that context. It’s more so about the technique that she used or,
29:5829 minutes, 58 secondsyou know, but then if you’re talking about authentic, you know, uh, authentic tortillini,
30:0730 minutes, 7 secondsthe filling really needs to be like DP pushcido, DOP mortadella, doop p reo,
30:1630 minutes, 16 secondsand because like that’s going to matter more than how it’s made, how those ingredients are combined or combined. it
30:2330 minutes, 23 secondsor put together the the the type of ingredients make more and carry more weight.
30:2930 minutes, 29 secondsExactly. Exactly. Okay. No, and that’s a great point. It’s a great point. All right. Let’s let’s dive really quick
30:3630 minutes, 36 secondsinto some of your accolades and this because this is going to segue into the next topic. So, for for those who don’t
30:4330 minutes, 43 secondsknow, those who haven’t or are not familiar and under the rock for a little bit, Top Chef season 15 finalist
30:5130 minutes, 51 secondsreturned to Top Chef Allstars, competed on Food Network’s Tournament of Champions a bunch of times. Um, appeared
30:5930 minutes, 59 secondson Chopped as both a competitor and a judge, uh, which which was you was just referring to as far as tasting. Uh,
31:0631 minutes, 6 secondscreator of Tantos, a puff pasta chip brand, which I am in love with. Also, it’s on your shirt and I see it all in the background over there. Culinary
31:1431 minutes, 14 secondsforce behind Rippy, a restaurant quality frozen pasta line, author of Breaking the Rules, a fresh take on Italian classics, which we were about to talk
31:2231 minutes, 22 secondsabout right now. And before we talk about the book, let’s talk about let’s talk about the pasta chip because I’m a fast fan. I, you know, immediately was a
31:3031 minutes, 30 secondsa fan after tasting it. Um, and it’s one of the most and actually before before I
31:3731 minutes, 37 secondstasted it, I actually saw obviously the uh your your your take on uh on uh on TV with the sharks about that. I thought it
31:4631 minutes, 46 secondswas it was brilliant. But let’s talk about how how it all came about and and the the the charge for bringing pasta to
31:5431 minutes, 54 secondsthe masses in a a way that us Americans know and love.
31:5931 minutes, 59 secondsYeah, it was uh it’s a combination of my two favorite food groups, pasta and nachos.
32:0432 minutes, 4 secondsAnd you know, as we like to say, finally pasta meat snacking. Yeah.
32:1032 minutes, 10 secondsAnd you have a bag right there. And you know, once you try it, you realize you’re like, why has no one done this before?
32:1532 minutes, 15 secondsYeah. It’s a norainer. [laughter] It’s it’s familiar. It’s comforting.
32:1932 minutes, 19 secondsIt’s unique. And it’s universal. Whether you’re six years old or 60 years old, you have a positive memory around pasta.
32:2832 minutes, 28 secondsNo one doesn’t. Unless you’re a celiac, but you know, this is not for you.
32:3232 minutes, 32 seconds[laughter]32:3332 minutes, 33 secondsAnd so, you know, being able to bring pasta to the masses first through Tontos
32:4032 minutes, 40 secondsand then through Rippy is, I guess, my answer to not having a brickandmortar restaurant.
32:4932 minutes, 49 secondsGot you. And you know, restaurants, the brick and mortar for chefs are often kind of like that legacy piece. It’s that it’s like the final step of the
32:5732 minutes, 57 secondspuzzle of like, okay, I’m successful. I made it. I have a place where people could come eat my food. Mhm.
33:0233 minutes, 2 secondsAnd for the longest time, that was really the only answer. And I feel like I’m early to the party in starting a CPG or consumer product good.
33:1333 minutes, 13 secondsMhm.
33:1333 minutes, 13 secondsUh, in the chef world, you know, people had spice blends and like that’s pretty straightforward. Um, and then you saw
33:2033 minutes, 20 secondssome chefs with olive oils. And really, I think in the coming years a you’ll see a lot more chef driven products and
33:2933 minutes, 29 secondschefs kind of making this jump as a more way to reach the masses, but also from like a personal and
33:3833 minutes, 38 secondsbusiness lens is much more sustainable in the long term. Restaurants operate on such slim margins.
33:4733 minutes, 47 secondsYeah. there’s no opportunity to really make an exit, you know, unless you’re one of the unicorns. And so this is, you know, is
33:5533 minutes, 55 secondsis an opportunity for, you know, my family, myself to, you know, one day be able to retire, right?
34:0234 minutes, 2 secondsBecause I have all of these other kind of like operations in place.
34:0634 minutes, 6 secondsPlus, these can come to you. You don’t have to you don’t have to come to the restaurant. These can come to you. And exactly. We’re 15,500 retailers nationwide. Yeah.
34:1534 minutes, 15 secondsWe’re available on Amazon Prime. We get them delivered the next day. And knock on knocking on wood. I don’t know when
34:2234 minutes, 22 secondsthis podcast is going to air, but good vibes going out to the universe. I’m flying to Oh, your neck of the woods on Wednesday. Okay.
34:3034 minutes, 30 secondsTo do my in-person pitch to Target. There you go. For nationwide distribution.
34:3534 minutes, 35 secondsYeah. Oh, yeah. This this is this is a no-brainer. Talk to me really quick about the shape.
34:4134 minutes, 41 secondsSo, that was a very happy accident. We started with I used to when I was making the original version like in my apartments. Uh it was slightly different
34:5034 minutes, 50 secondschips, slightly different texture. I was using Barilla pasta. I was using their shells,
34:5734 minutes, 57 secondsthe large shells and it puffed up similarly and I liked it cuz it could scoop. You could pipe things into it. I used to like pipe in guanchali reffried
35:0635 minutes, 6 secondsbeans top with ricotta salada and I was like Italian nachos.
35:1035 minutes, 10 secondsAnd that was kind of like the ideas. I love that the the cup factor. Mhm.
35:1735 minutes, 17 secondsAnd when we went to our founder manufacturer, our comb, uh the process, the pellets are made,
35:2435 minutes, 24 secondsthey’re called pellets before you fry them.
35:2735 minutes, 27 secondsThey’re extruded like pasta out of an extruded brass dice, big brass dice.
35:3335 minutes, 33 secondsAnd the the machine is not necessarily a pasta machine. It’s a different kind of proprietary process, but it comes out,
35:4035 minutes, 40 secondsit dries the same. And we wanted to get our own like shape made a shell or whatever cuz they had like this spiral
35:4835 minutes, 48 secondscinnamon twist like Taco Bell as an option. And they had I forget it was one other thing they sent me to that I didn’t like. I was like, “No, I really
35:5535 minutes, 55 secondswant the cup.” And they’re like, “Okay, great. It’s like $120,000 to [laughter] get your custom dye made in Italy and it’ll take 8 months.” And
36:0436 minutes, 4 secondswe were like, “Oh shit.” Like that was [laughter] not good. we can’t do that.
36:0836 minutes, 8 secondsAnd they were like, but actually uh we do have this dye that got made and no.
36:1636 minutes, 16 secondsAnd then the brand or business decided they didn’t like it and so it’s just kind of we could give it to you at a discount for like 10 G’s or something
36:2336 minutes, 23 secondsand we’re like oh okay [laughter] and so we’re the only one that have this die. It’s ours now and we didn’t have to
36:3036 minutes, 30 secondswait a year and spend 10 x amount of money. Yeah. Divine intervention. Yeah. Abs.
36:3536 minutes, 35 secondsAbsolutely. the Okay. Yeah, this shape looks great and we like it.
36:3936 minutes, 39 secondsAbsolutely. Absolutely. Okay, breaking the rules. Let’s talk about this cuz this is uh this is a it’s a this is a
36:4736 minutes, 47 secondscool book, man. So, talk to me about the book itself. Um, and I know that you
36:5436 minutes, 54 secondswere doing specifically over COVID, you were doing a ton of pasta uh uh on on socials and so which I I’m guessing
37:0237 minutes, 2 secondsspawned the idea to do this and in the manner you would you do it because it’s so approachable. Um, such such a cool cool cool book. Talk about the book.
37:1137 minutes, 11 secondsYeah. So, you know, breaking the rules, I like to say it’s a fresh take on Italian cuisine. There are all these so-called rules and traditions in cooking.
37:2237 minutes, 22 secondsuh specifically Italian cooking that I feel like once you learn them and approach it more so as a framework or
37:2937 minutes, 29 secondssay a theory, I have a great pesto theory section in there in the center as like an insert where here’s all the building blocks of pesto,
37:3837 minutes, 38 secondsbut sub out whatever you want. Use goat cheese instead of reo, use mint instead of basil. use pumpkin seeds instead of
37:4737 minutes, 47 secondsinstead of pine nuts and you could still call it a pesto. I give you the stamp of Jose stamp [laughter] of approval. You know,
37:5537 minutes, 55 secondsthere’s nothing wrong with that because you understand what goes into a basic pesto from Italy. But now that you
38:0338 minutes, 3 secondsunderstand all those building blocks, you could do whatever you want. So, I wanted to be approachable. I wanted to be things people would actually make.
38:0938 minutes, 9 secondsAnd believe it or not, it originally I pitched it as a pasta book.
38:1538 minutes, 15 secondsAnd we got a couple of offers from different publishing houses.
38:2038 minutes, 20 secondsAnd one of them, the one I ended up going with, convinced me on their pitch to me was like, “You’re known for so much more
38:2738 minutes, 27 secondsthan pasta. Don’t pigeon hole yourself.” Yeah.
38:3138 minutes, 31 secondsWrite a general cooking book. And I there’s two whole chapters in there completely dedicated to pasta if you’re a pasta person. one again kind of
38:4038 minutes, 40 secondspushing that idea of here’s just a bunch of different fillings. Make any pasta shape you’re capable of making. Mhm.
38:4838 minutes, 48 secondsFold into a triangle, fold into a square, make an actual torillini, whatever you want. Just make a good filling and
38:5738 minutes, 57 secondsserve it with butter. [laughter] No need to like over complicate it with that. Absolutely.
39:0139 minutes, 1 secondAnd then a whole another chapter of where dried pasta is your best friend.
39:0539 minutes, 5 secondsYeah. [clears throat] and kind of like breaking this idea that like certain shapes can only go with certain sauces.
39:1239 minutes, 12 secondsYeah. And it’s a whole chapter of different pasta sauces, ragu phrases, cheesy things, fresh things, and put it
39:2039 minutes, 20 secondswith any whatever shape you’re in the mood for. That’s how we cook. When I’m at home, I ask I ask Kate, I’m like, “What shape do you want tonight?”
39:2739 minutes, 27 secondsAnd I’m not choosing the shape based on the sauce. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
39:3139 minutes, 31 secondsI’m choosing the shape based on what we want to eat and what I have in the pantry. and I’ll make whatever sauce that we’re like I want to go with it.
39:3839 minutes, 38 secondsAnd there’s no reason cooking can’t shouldn’t be that way. Right. Right.
39:4139 minutes, 41 secondsYou know there I I come from the came from the restaurant where like tusk I’m getting in trouble with tusk. Chef Tusk because I wanted to put a cheese from
39:4939 minutes, 49 secondsnorthern Italy that went on a shape that comes from southern Italy. Oh, [laughter] they don’t have that cheese in southern Italy. Joe read a book.
39:5739 minutes, 57 secondsEducate yourself. [laughter] And so you know that just like pissed me off more than anything. And that was kind of like
40:0440 minutes, 4 secondsthe initial the anticipus of being like, I want to break the rules. Yeah.
40:0940 minutes, 9 secondsI want to put this cheese on there because it’s better than the cheeses they have in southern Italy. It’d be [laughter] more better.
40:1440 minutes, 14 secondsAnd so that you know, look where we are now. Exactly. Fast forward.
40:1840 minutes, 18 secondsNo, that’s this is amazing. That’s amazing. No, really. And it’s it’s it’s definitely a good read. Uh, and that whole chapter that you talk about the
40:2640 minutes, 26 secondsuh, the dry pasta being your best friend, it actually I I can see how it’s going to liberate the masses. Now, with
40:3440 minutes, 34 secondsthat being said, not all dry pastas are created equal. There’s this is true. And I talk about that.
40:4040 minutes, 40 secondsYes, you do. [laughter] And I talk about that, you know, for anybody that doesn’t have the book or doesn’t read, which [laughter] I I
40:4740 minutes, 47 secondscaught someone red-handed. They sent me a DM. I’m going off topic, but we’ll get to the dried pasta shapes. [laughter] I caught someone red-handed in my DMs
40:5540 minutes, 55 secondsthe other day. They were like, “Oh, I made your mom’s marinara from your book.
41:0141 minutes, 1 secondIt never said to add the onions and garlic back in after you fry them in the olive oil, so I did it anyway.”
41:0841 minutes, 8 secondsAnd and they were like, “You you forgot or your recipe is wrong or like there’s a typo.” And I was like, “No, clearly you didn’t read the little recipe
41:1741 minutes, 17 seconds[laughter] header because I talk about why my mom did it that way and [laughter] where the idea of not adding
41:2441 minutes, 24 secondsthem back in comes from and why my mom did that and all the alternative use cases for the onions and garlic instead
41:3241 minutes, 32 secondsof adding them back in.” And so I’m like, clearly you didn’t read it. You didn’t read it. I caught you. I caught you [laughter] not reading. Uh, I digress.
41:4041 minutes, 40 secondsSo, here we are on dried pasta is your best friend. One, I I think it kind of like breaks the rule in a way that so
41:4941 minutes, 49 secondsmany people have this the wrong idea that dried pasta is good.
41:5341 minutes, 53 secondsOnly fresh pasta is good. That’s not true. Yeah.
41:5741 minutes, 57 secondsThere are so many restaurants that make their own extruded pasta. That is trash. Yep.
42:0242 minutes, 2 secondsAnd I I’m sorry if you’re a chef out there that thinks you think you make good extruded pasta.
42:0842 minutes, 8 secondsMaybe you do. You most likely [laughter] don’t because it’s a completely different skill set. It’s a completely different art form. I don’t make good extruded pasta.
42:1842 minutes, 18 secondsI mean, I don’t make great extruded pasta. I can make good extruded pasta, right? But making great extruded pasta
42:2542 minutes, 25 secondstakes a completely dedicated like setup and operation because of the extrusion, the curing,
42:3542 minutes, 35 secondsthe the the the storage, all the different aspects of it where most restaurants are too volume to really like get a good hang on that. And so
42:4342 minutes, 43 secondsyeah, even even the humidity and the the the all of that, you know, it’s it’s a really really labor intensive process.
42:5042 minutes, 50 secondsIt’s not. It’s like, oh, put your flour and water in the thing, watch it turn, and watch the cool shapes come out. Yeah, that sure it looks cool.
42:5942 minutes, 59 secondsIt does look cool. It does. It makes great videos.
43:0143 minutes, 1 secondCool. [laughter] Uh, and so, you know, that that’s that’s that where dry pasta you could buy, it’s gotten really good. You’re looking for
43:1043 minutes, 10 secondsthe words bronze bronze extruded, slow dried are two like key words on the packaging you should look for. And then through the little window that you can
43:1843 minutes, 18 secondssee in your shapes, uh, you’re looking for like very light colored, not yellow.
43:2443 minutes, 24 secondsIt should be it should almost look dirty, rough around the edges, flowery, not clean, not smooth, uh, really really
43:3343 minutes, 33 secondsall that rough texture. And, you know, if is if you find either both or either one of those things on the package,
43:4043 minutes, 40 secondsyou’re you’re you’re set. That that buy it buy it in bulk. Get a couple different bags. [laughter] that’s your brand, you found the place to buy it.
43:4843 minutes, 48 secondsUm because you know this day these this day and age, most grocery stores, you can find that in the pasta aisle.
43:5443 minutes, 54 secondsUh and at least a couple of different choices of brands in the pasta aisle.
43:5843 minutes, 58 secondsAnd so, you know, avoid the mass- prodduced, shiny, yellow, smooth looking dried pasta.
44:0844 minutes, 8 secondsAll the stuff we grew up with. That’s not your best friend. All the stuff we grew up with. Yeah. Yeah.
44:1344 minutes, 13 secondsYeah. That [laughter] Yeah. all the stuff we grew up with. That’s your friend you shouldn’t be calling to hang out with, but you do it [laughter] sometimes because they’re the only ones that answered.
44:2244 minutes, 22 secondsYeah. So, you know, you’re not supposed to hang out with them. It’s bad [laughter] news, but you do it anyway.
44:2744 minutes, 27 secondsBad news. Everybody told you that kind of pasta. I’m not going to say the brands. We all know the brands. Exactly.
44:3244 minutes, 32 secondsThey’re out there. I’m not going to throw them under the bus, but for sure. They They have a place. They definitely have a place. They have a place. They have a place.
44:4044 minutes, 40 secondsAll right. If if food is one of the ways that we inherit the past, what responsibility do we have to change it before handing it to the future?
44:5444 minutes, 54 seconds[sighs]44:5444 minutes, 54 secondsI don’t know.
44:5744 minutes, 57 secondsInteresting. I don’t know if this is a hot take now. I don’t know if we have a responsibility.
45:0145 minutes, 1 secondOkay. It’s it’s it’s going to be one now.
45:0345 minutes, 3 seconds[laughter]45:0545 minutes, 5 secondsbecause well you the way you asked the question was what responsibility do we have before uh before we change it I don’t think we have one responsibility
45:1345 minutes, 13 secondsto change it I don’t think we have a responsibility to you know necessarily
45:2145 minutes, 21 secondslike pass on something new or something unique I think the only responsibility we have is to be a shepherd of knowledge
45:2945 minutes, 29 secondsgota I think that’s important I think as chefs as mentors As leaders, we are shepherds of knowledge and we have that
45:3645 minutes, 36 secondsresponsibility to pass on what we have learned because a lot of what we have learned
45:4345 minutes, 43 secondscan only be passed on through seeing, through feeling, through touching, through these tactile experiences. And I
45:5045 minutes, 50 secondsthink that is much more important than necessarily passing on a new version, a new iteration, changing something, being revolutionary.
46:0046 minutesThat that is not nearly as important.
46:0246 minutes, 2 secondsAnd there’s no responsibility on us to yeah, you know, to reinvent the wheel or to create something new, but to be a shepherd of knowledge, I
46:1146 minutes, 11 secondsthink that’s that is the most important responsibility that we have.
46:1446 minutes, 14 secondsThat’s a that’s a great answer. Great answer. Okay. What what part of your story do you hope never gets lost behind aesthetics, the television or the brand?
46:2546 minutes, 25 secondsWhat what what core piece of Joe Sasto do you want people to to really hone in and get?
46:3646 minutes, 36 secondsI think interesting. Interesting. This might be another hot take and [laughter] I’m going to say it. I’m going to put it
46:4246 minutes, 42 secondson the record. Um that stoners can be successful.
46:4746 minutes, 47 secondsThere you go. That’s the [clears throat] facts. And I think there’s and and like cuz I’m like such a big advocate for for like the you know the proper consumption
46:5646 minutes, 56 secondsof of cannabis and marijuana and I much rather use that than alcohol or anything else.
47:0447 minutes, 4 secondsAnd my entire life, my entire career, I had a 4.6 average. I was on the deans list at UC Davis. I graduated with the
47:1247 minutes, 12 secondsdegree. I’ve worked in the some of the best kitchens in the country. Mhm.
47:1647 minutes, 16 secondsI have I’m an entrepreneur now with multiple businesses and brands that I manage and operate and I I think by most means of metrics I am successful.
47:2747 minutes, 27 secondsRight. And I smoke a [ __ ] ton of weed.
47:3147 minutes, 31 secondsAnd I think there’s just like it’s just an herb. There’s no reason. It’s just an herb. It’s just an herb.
47:3647 minutes, 36 secondsExactly. There’s so many other worse things. Absolutely.
47:3947 minutes, 39 secondsThat that could hinder your success in life. And it’s all about more. It It doesn’t make you lazy,
47:4747 minutes, 47 secondsright? No, you’re just lazy.
47:4947 minutes, 49 secondsNo, you were lazy before. Yeah, that that has that. Yeah, that’s this that that is not a side effect. It’s a It’s an excuse. It’s an excuse.
47:5647 minutes, 56 secondsYou are lazy. It is an excuse. Absolutely.
47:5947 minutes, 59 secondsAnd I think I think that’s one thing. I mean, obviously people are always going to know I did all of these other great things and I come from this great
48:0648 minutes, 6 secondsbackground and I have all these accomplishments, but I’m not going to say it’s because of weed, but it definitely helped me chill the [ __ ] out when I was stressed about all of these things.
48:1548 minutes, 15 secondsAbs fuckingutely. Absolutely.
48:1848 minutes, 18 secondsAbsolutely. And especially in in this industry for those who are not in the industry, there’s like there’s a culture, you know, like the shift drink
48:2548 minutes, 25 secondsis a culture. It’s been it’s been every like alcoholism is kind of bred into the the restaurant industry. It just is what it is. So if you make it out and you’re
48:3448 minutes, 34 secondsnot you could buy the kitchen a round of drinks.
48:3648 minutes, 36 secondsYes. It’s on all the menus across the country. Yeah. Yeah. You I’ve done it, you know, and so Yeah. I mean I used to, you know, back
48:4448 minutes, 44 secondsearly on when I was I thought that was a thing. You know, you show up with a case of beer for the kitchen.
48:4848 minutes, 48 secondsYeah. Exactly. Now that I am mature and [laughter] older, I show up with a case of Gatorade, energy drinks, and gummy candies. There you go.
48:5648 minutes, 56 secondsAnd tonto. Yeah, of course. Of course, of course.
48:5948 minutes, 59 secondsOf course. Yeah. Eat responsibly. Um,
49:0249 minutes, 2 seconds[laughter]49:0349 minutes, 3 secondsall right, bro. Before I let you get out of here, we’re going to play a little game called the lightning round. So, I’m going to ask you some questions, and you
49:1249 minutes, 12 secondsjust say the first thing that pops into your head.
49:1549 minutes, 15 secondsYou know, it’s only going to live on the internet. Going to be good. Yeah, this is going to be great. It’s going to be great. My brain’s a crazy place, man.
49:2149 minutes, 21 secondsLet’s Let’s do it. All right, so here we go. One pasta shape that gets too much hype.
49:2849 minutes, 28 secondsCavatopy.
49:3049 minutes, 30 secondsFacts. [laughter] Facts. Apostate that does not get enough hype. Angel hair.
49:3849 minutes, 38 secondsOkay. Oh, see I was about to I’m about to You just You jumped my next You jumped the You jumped to the next question. [ __ ] Okay. All right. I’m
49:4549 minutes, 45 secondsgoing to ask it anyway. So now we can have a separate thing. One pasta shape that deserves more respect.
49:5149 minutes, 51 secondsMore respect. I think uh a good rietoni if we’re talking about respect. Okay.
49:5849 minutes, 58 secondsProperly cooking rietoni with that nice al dente bite in the middle like that. You really usually only find in Italy.
50:0450 minutes, 4 secondsYou don’t see and you don’t often see rigetoni on menus here or at least you know like it’s kind of like one of those shapes that we all grew up having and now
50:1250 minutes, 12 secondspeople are trying to be creative and like oh rieton is boring.
50:1550 minutes, 15 secondsYeah. You know, I think it deserves a little more respect. You know, it’s awesome. Especially like in like an amateur where you get the little guanchali pieces.
50:2350 minutes, 23 secondsYeah. You got stick inside. Oh, yeah.
50:2550 minutes, 25 seconds[laughter]50:2550 minutes, 25 secondsAnd then they’re like little like porky surprises, little meat tubes that blow up in your mouth. Like [laughter] everybody loves that. Okay. All right.
50:3450 minutes, 34 secondsYeah.
50:3450 minutes, 34 secondsOkay. Red sauce, white sauce, butter sauce, or no sauce?
50:4050 minutes, 40 secondsMy brother. Butter. More butter. More butter. I have it tattooed on my arm. More butter. More butter. There you go.
50:4750 minutes, 47 seconds[laughter]50:4750 minutes, 47 secondsMore butter. I am a butter fanatic. I I like I love that olive oil is not even a choice here. Oh, no. No, no, no, no, not at all.
50:5650 minutes, 56 secondsOkay. Dish you never want to cook again.
51:0351 minutes, 3 secondsUm, more so I think about a prep task I never want to do again. I once we we once got like these bags of fresh uh
51:1251 minutes, 12 secondspine nuts. I don’t know if you ever pine nuts. Oh, [ __ ] a.
51:1651 minutes, 16 secondsYeah. Yes, my man.
51:1751 minutes, 17 secondsMost [laughter] people have never thought about peeling pine nuts.
51:2051 minutes, 20 secondsYeah, because you just buy them and you realize why they’re so expensive.
51:2451 minutes, 24 secondsYeah, exactly. And all wild. It’s a wild thing. Yeah. [ __ ] all of that.
51:2851 minutes, 28 secondsAnd to peel them and break them open and to keep them whole.
51:3251 minutes, 32 secondsYeah. Oh, yeah. Accidentally breaking that. Don’t break the pine nuts out of this little shelf. [laughter] For God, that was like whatever season that
51:4051 minutes, 40 secondswas that we got those pine. It only happened once. We never bought them again at the restaurant. We’re like, this was a dumb idea.
51:4551 minutes, 45 secondsYeah, [ __ ] all of that. That Yeah, that’s it’s a great one. [laughter] One chef you would trust to cook your last meal.
51:5551 minutes, 55 secondsMark Veter. A great answer.
51:5751 minutes, 57 secondsOne of my favorite like Oh, his Okay. And what would that last meal be?
52:0152 minutes, 1 secondI’m curious. I mean I I I just love I mean Fiorella is one of my favorite restaurants in the in the world.
52:0852 minutes, 8 secondsUm and just Mark Veter is like the pope of pasta. Yeah.
52:1152 minutes, 11 secondsEverything he touches just becomes blessed. Like he was Yeah. I read his cookbook mastering pasta when I first started making pasta probably like 30
52:1952 minutes, 19 secondstimes. I would always reference those first couple of chapters and just the way he wrote about wheat and the different dials you could turn
52:2752 minutes, 27 secondsand understanding with the different ingredients brought to the party.
52:3052 minutes, 30 secondssimilar to like how Alton Brown explains a lot of his like recipe theories and ideas.
52:3652 minutes, 36 secondsUm I just I just love love his his style of cooking and food and he leans towards
52:4452 minutes, 44 secondsauthentic traditional whatever you want to say but there’s always like a little twist something to kind of always make it his own. Gotcha.
52:5152 minutes, 51 secondsWhether it be a vegetable you wouldn’t normally see in a dish or cheese you wouldn’t normally see in a dish or seafood or something like that. uh which you know makes it fun and unique and
53:0053 minutesinteresting. Um but uh his nudie is one of like the most best nudie I’ve ever had. Probably the best nudie I’ve ever had.
53:0853 minutes, 8 secondsThey they they make it to order. You see them piping it the ricotta out of a bag into a like, you know, kitty litter of flour. Yeah. And the line cooks are over
53:1753 minutes, 17 secondsthere like fluffing around flour all service long. Like pain in the ass. I couldn’t imag [laughter] like I’m in a tiny little line doing like 100 100
53:2653 minutes, 26 secondsseats at a time and these guys are piping nudity to order like insanity.
53:3153 minutes, 31 secondsBut it makes a difference. It’s incredible.
53:3453 minutes, 34 secondsIt’s like this like perfect pillow of creamy ricotta goodness. U but yeah. No, I I love Mark’s food. Okay. Dope.
53:4253 minutes, 42 secondsAnd but it would have to end with a pistachio molten lava cake. He called it like a pistachio fam. Formato. I call it
53:5053 minutes, 50 secondsa pistachio molten lava [laughter] cake regardless. Way better than the chocolate version.
53:5653 minutes, 56 secondsAbsolutely. Okay. Worst thing someone can do to pasta?
54:0354 minutes, 3 seconds[sighs]54:0454 minutes, 4 secondsUm, probably not seasoning the pasta water.
54:0954 minutes, 9 secondsI’m trying to think. Would overseeing be worse and making it salty like the sea? Not seasoning would be worse.
54:1454 minutes, 14 secondsNot seasoning is worse than overseasoning. And I think most people would say pouring the sauce on top, which surprisingly I don’t have a
54:2254 minutes, 22 secondsproblem with. Yeah, it’s not the best way to serve pasta, but [laughter] again, it has a time and a place.
54:2854 minutes, 28 secondsYeah, absolutely. Absolutely. [laughter] All right, cool. That has been the lightning round. Um, I got one more
54:3654 minutes, 36 secondsquestion for you. If you could only leave the world with one message, what would it be?
54:5054 minutes, 50 secondsBelieve in yourself. You can do it.
54:5354 minutes, 53 secondsSomeone is proud of you and you should be proud of yourself, too. That’s great. That’s great.
55:0055 minutesI think that’s important. I think not enough people hear that. Yeah, for sure.
55:0455 minutes, 4 secondsAnd you never know who who that might help or what someone is going through and they need to hear that. And I’m
55:1155 minutes, 11 secondslucky and I’m blessed enough, fortunate enough that I have people around me that tell me that. Yeah.
55:1655 minutes, 16 secondsBut for not everyone, that’s not the case. And I think everyone deserves that feeling.
55:2155 minutes, 21 secondsVery true. Very true. And and for those who who can’t muster it enough up internally to be able to feel that way.
55:2955 minutes, 29 secondsAnd that’s a it’s a great thing to have selfawareness and and understand your self-worth just to know that you are doing, you know, you’re you’re living
55:3755 minutes, 37 secondsthe best life right now that you can. um and and and strive for whatever that is, whatever that success is for yourself.
55:4455 minutes, 44 secondsUm there’s no one way to uh to be and and and stop trying to measure your yourself against whomever the hell else
55:5355 minutes, 53 secondsis. You know, you’re you’re if you are doing something and you had an idea and you brought it to fruition, you are doing something that 99% of people will
56:0256 minutes, 2 secondsnever ever have the ability to say they did.
56:0556 minutes, 5 secondsSo, Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
56:0756 minutes, 7 secondsYeah. That’s that’s absolutely that’s a fact. Okay, Joe, tell everyone out there where where they can follow you. Uh where they can get the book uh on all all the things.
56:1956 minutes, 19 secondsYou have them all. Let’s go. You have the [clears throat] Yeah. Yeah. Let’s roll through it. Uh chef.jo.sasto on all the platforms. I have a new
56:2756 minutes, 27 secondsYouTube series, Make Mom Proud Show. If you like fun and family and moms, everyone loves moms, right?
56:3456 minutes, 34 secondsYes. Go check out Make Mama Proud Show.
56:3756 minutes, 37 secondsYou can find us on Instagram, see some clips. If you can’t commit to something that’s 12 minutes long, you can watch 30
56:4356 minutes, 43 secondssecond versions. You can find Tontos at E Tantos. Follow along. They’re in a bunch of grocery stores and on Amazon.
56:5256 minutes, 52 secondsThe book you get signed copies. There’s a handful of signed copies left still at City Lit Books here in Chicago. You can order online. They’ll ship it to you. or
57:0157 minutes, 1 secondyou know where the place where you can buy cookbooks online. That’ll get there the next day that we [laughter] try not to mention but we all use it. Yes.
57:0857 minutes, 8 secondsAnd then of course Rippy Ravioli uh available in Target and Whole Foods nationwide. Frozen pasta never tasted so good.
57:1657 minutes, 16 secondsYes, for sure. For sure. Make sure you guys all follow Chef Joe Sasto. Check out Breaking the Rules. Look for tacos.
57:2357 minutes, 23 secondsUh keep an eye out for Rippy. And most importantly, get in the kitchen and give yourself permission to cook with curiosity. Um, Joe, this has been dope,
57:3157 minutes, 31 secondsman. Um, you know, I love you, bro. Uh, this is this has been so fun. I I I can’t wait for everybody to um uh you
57:4157 minutes, 41 secondsknow, take a gander at this, get the book, make some ficasha, you know, do all the things, and uh don’t forget to
57:4857 minutes, 48 secondstag tag tag Joe when you make that ficasha. Uh he he’ll check it out for you. Again, this has been the Taste Music here podcast show. If you have
57:5657 minutes, 56 secondsfound value in anything that you’ve listened to or seen today, like, [music] comment, share, followed, all the
58:0458 minutes, 4 secondsthings. Uh, until next time, I’ve been Ed Porter. Peace.

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