Paradise Gray: The Griot of The Golden Era

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People tend to put people on pedestals and I definitely don’t want to be on no
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pedestal because people on pedestals are easy to topple. Yeah. Yeah.
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And people tend to make somebody larger than life. You know what I’m saying?
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We prop Africa Bamb up so much accolades that Yeah. you know, the people around him
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was willing to ignore the reality and the money, you know, just for the money and the fame.
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And we got to stop that [ _ ] Yeah. 0:34 34 seconds You know, the entertainment industry, they knew exactly what Diddy was and what he was doing. They knew what Russell was doing. 0:41 41 seconds Yep. 0:43 43 seconds They know what Bamb was doing, you know, and these things become normalized and mainstreamed by putting these people on 0:50 50 seconds pedestals. And I think that’s whack. And I tell young people all the time that we really don’t need leaders cuz we don’t 0:58 58 seconds need y’all to follow nobody. We need you to learn how to follow your own instincts and lead your own life. No, that’s awesome. That That’s awesome. 1:07 1 minute, 7 seconds We just need to be living examples of the [ _ ] that we talk. We should walk the talk or shut the [ _ ] up. 1:17 1 minute, 17 seconds Amen to that. 1:18 1 minute, 18 seconds Yeah. [laughter] Like as well as we can do it. 1:22 1 minute, 22 seconds Was that kind of [ _ ] that that that super grimy low down [ __ ] was that did you see that creeping in in the early 80s already?
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You know where like were leaders taking advantage? It was there. Huh? just there, [clears throat] right? Where do you think hip-hop comes from?
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Well, I’d like to think it doesn’t come from that. It’s from the streets. Where hip- hop comes from?
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I know it comes from the streets, but I Yeah.
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Broken glass everywhere. People pissing on the station know they just don’t care. I can’t take the smell. Can’t take the noise. Got no money, too, but rather
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got no choice. Rats in the front room, rookies in the back with a baseball.
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That’s [laughter] real. We hip hop came from that. That’s our reality. We lived in Beirut. We lived in the Gaza Strip.
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We lived in the war zone. We lived with rats, roaches, uh landlords that burnt the buildings for the money, for the insurance money.
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You know, that was our reality.
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It’s amazing that anything good came from where hip hop came from.
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But we were able to use that pressure of the socopolitical and economic realities
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and that pressure turned the the raw coal into diamonds.
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Y’all, I’m sick with it. My name is ubiquitous, meaning it’s one and the same. Simple and plain. I’m all about my
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paper, the bacon, chitter, and pain. I got these lames running for the border.
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The talented Mr. Porter, keep it flowing like it’s water. But here we go. There we go. Creeping to a low speed. Is it him and his friend sitting in the nose
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playing cool? He ain’t special just cuz he’s on TV. Everybody’s hands up acting like they know we
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[music]3:28
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welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to another episode of the Taste Music Hear Food podcast show. I am
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your host Ed Porter. This is the place for food, music, and culture and how they all connect. Today’s guest is is
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one of those generational talents, uh, a true pillar of all things
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hip-hop, and I am ecstatic to sit and talk to him. So, before we get started, I have to give this man the flowers he
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so graciously gratefully deserves. Okay, here we go. Before the thought of hip hop museums or TV specials, before it
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was global, before it was raw, it was righteous. It was real. And standing at the heart of it, helping shape its soul,
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was this man. From the South Bronx to the stage of Latin Quarter, he wasn’t just a witness to the coach’s rise. He
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was the architect. He opened doors for legends that walk through, help exclan give voice to a movement, and now as the
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chief curator of the hip hop museum, he’s ensuring the story gets told right with love, integrity, and truth. This
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man didn’t just ride the wave of hip-hop, he built the shoreline. It’s an honor to welcome a living library, a
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cultural engineer, and one of the truest voices of preservation, the architect, Mr. Paradise Gray.
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Hey, peace, man. How y’all doing out there? Good, good, good. Did I do good, sir? Did I do good? Everything good, Dice? Okay. All right.
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You [laughter] know, we got to look out for the professional.
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Yes. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, again, thank you so much for for taking the time to do this. Um, this is a long time
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coming. We can’t have This show is specifically about, you know, food, music, and culture. And as we, you know,
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we’ve talked offline about these things and these are definitely pillars of what hip-hop truly is and we couldn’t have
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that conversation without talking to you. This is Thank you, sir. Appreciate that.
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It is a must. So, let’s let’s just jump right in and let’s talk about your origin story. Let’s talk about let’s talk about the Bronx. Let’s talk
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about the South Bronx. talk about how, you know, as far as the origin of what we know hip
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hop to be, you were in the cusp of all these things happening. And the masses don’t, you know, they know a few names,
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right? They know Cool Herk and they know these things, but we know that that’s that’s that might be like Kirk and might be the second generation of what was to
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be and what was. So speak to me about the the origins and of how it all came
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to be and how you went from just being a participant to knowing that this is the wave.
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Um the beautiful thing about the story of hip hop is that there’s no beginning and no end. As a beginning, there’s many
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beginnings and depending upon where you’re from and where you’re at, you may have a different origin story than me.
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Not to say that your story is wrong, but uh they say that I’m a historian and I
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used to believe that until recently when you learn things that you didn’t even know. So I’m not a historian.
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I’m a my story. Exactly.
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So I don’t know about telling the story that everybody else tell. I just know what I saw, what I heard, and what I
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live. right for facts, right?
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And I’ve been lucky enough to save the receipts of the culture so that uh anything I say out of my mouth is the proven fact.
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Absolutely.
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I grew up uh I was born in North Carolina, a small town called Washington. And when I was four years
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old, my mom moved me, my brother, and sister to the Bronx so that we wouldn’t grow up picking cotton and tobacco. and
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and the building that I lived in 1715 Buckner Boulevard which should go
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down in history as well as 1520 Sedic because in my building a gentleman by
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the name of Disco King Mario lived and a lot of people like oh he was disco
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hip-hop without disco if you look at 80% of the old school
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hip-hop flyers is you’ll see the word disco on them, right?
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And if you find a flyer from hip hop before 1979 with the word hip hop on it, I’ll give
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you $2,000 for that. [laughter] Well, well, first off, the word disco that that represented a place that was a
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that was a destination. That wasn’t so much as far as music.
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Exactly. To other people, disco was a music and in their mind they see a white woman in a white dress high on cocaine spinning around at Studio 54.
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Yeah. Not us, right? We had a different definition of disco.
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The disco was just a continuation of music. In fact, most of the music that we called disco was funking R&B,
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you know, and uh there would be no hip-hop without the disco sound. In fact, in 1979,
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almost every single rap record that came out that year was a sample or a replay of a so-called disco record, right?
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Yeah. So, you know, so and that building I lived in with Disco King Mario and I lived there in the Bronx projects, you know,
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hanging with the Black Spades and learning from them. And then I moved to a community on the west side called
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Highbridge and I lived on 165th and um there was a major DJs that lived in my
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community. Uh and a lot of people may not know those names either, but a DJ John Brown who was the DJ that inspired Cool Herk.
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Cool. Look at that. And there was uh um my god uh uh CC Howard,
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DJ Tony Rome, Lefty, a whole lot of DJs nobody ever heard of. Mloud,
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right? And the big man of all of those was a DJ named Pete DJ Jones who was
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also a foundational disco DJ who also played break beats and mentored Curtis Blow Love Bug Saskski Hollywood.
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Oh wow.
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And um I said Curtis Blow Disco King Mario Hollywood and Love Bug Sarski.
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Okay.
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So yeah. Yeah. We had like so incredible of the, you know, the foundational DJs in our community that it was ridiculous.
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Every day somebody new or somebody old would be coming out with their equipment, right? And at at that time I could I
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could, you know, in my mind I would believe there’s probably only a handful of DJs that could travel that had that
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had the name and had the equipment to be able to travel around the city to do that. So you if you was one of those few, you had to, you know, you had to be the guy.
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DJ Jones was the top of the barrel.
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Okay? You know, the two most popular DJs that were mobile DJs at the time was
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Pete DJ Jones from the Bronx and Grandmaster Flowers from Brooklyn.
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But also in my community in the Bronx, there was a DJ named DJ Smoke aka Smokey from Smoke in the Smokeron.
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And he was the guy that used to battle her.
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Wow. Everybody heard about who hurt her turning the knobs on DJs [laughter] and winning the battles by drowning them out. Yeah.
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But nobody ever know who the heck was the DJs that Herk was drowning out.
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Mhm. Yeah. [laughter] That’s crazy.
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And also on my community in Hybridge was the Grand Imperial DJ JC.
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And in my opinion, the Grand Imperial DJ JC and Grand Mixer DXT were the two best
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DJs back in the day, followed by Grandmaster Flash and uh and Grand with the Theodore and um
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you know, a lot of people don’t really know that history. Yeah. you know, but uh JC and DXT, they were actual drummers
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and percussionists who also played with live bands. So, their hands different were ridiculous with their inex ear. Yeah, they got they got the ear.
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So, and they were the first ones to really use the turntables as percussion instruments because they were really percussionists.
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Yeah, that’s crazy. So my and it’s funny to hear that especially for me. So I’m I’m from the Bronx. I’m from the the
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northeast co-op area. And so like Bamb B lived in my building. So uh so I when I was a kid, you know, bam, you know, in
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Zulu, that was it was huge for me. And that was, you know, very much a a take on just soaking it up. I was, you know,
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kid that just wanted to to break and and and and go go writing and all these different things. and I was just immersed immersed in in the culture of
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it all. So your nickname is the architect, you know, can you talk talk to me about the early days because I’m
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pretty sure like when when when greatness is happening, nobody’s thinking about oh 20 years from now, 50 years from now, this is going to
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be XYZ. When these things were happening, how did you what did you think about them? And then
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what? How did you know enough to start archiving things? Cuz you was you was you got stuff you got stuff of the
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culture that nobody has that that you just had the foresight to like, you know, okay, this is going to mean something someday. So, I’m I’m holding on to it.
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Actually, I didn’t even think about it like that. I give credit to that to my brother, my big brother. His name was Coach Green. They called him in the Bronx, but his name is Michael Green.
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Rest in peace. Uh, when other young guys had big brothers that was showing them the streets, my big brother was showing me the universe.
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When other big brothers were taking their little brothers up on the roof to shoot guns, my big brother was taking me up on a roof with a telescope.
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You know, he was a a interesting character. You know, he collected stamps and coins. I
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couldn’t get into that. [laughter] Then he started collecting comic books. That was my ticket. I was I was a comic book guy, too.
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He was a comic book collector and I was a comic book reader. And that’s oil and water. They don’t mix. Yeah. So, I had
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to start collecting my own comics cuz I like flipping through them and reading them.
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And uh that’s what attracted me to hip hop flyers back in the day. That the
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hip-hop flyers reminded me of comic books. Grandmaster Flash. Yeah. Grand Wizard Theodore.
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Yeah.
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The hip-hop universe was like the Marvel and DC universe to me, you know. Come on. Flash. Yeah. Come on.
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Yeah. Listen, they, you know, so they had those flamboyant names like the comic books, but you would never see comic book characters walking down the street.
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Yeah. [laughter] In my hood, you could see Melly Mel walk down the street. You can see Grandmaster Cass.
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Yeah. And they look like they look like superheroes, too. I mean they’re back especially back then like real life superheroes to me. Absolutely. Absolutely.
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So I collected the comic books because a lot of them had incredible art.
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You know what I’m saying? And I got into the art because my brother was also an illustrator and an artist. Yeah. So I love the comic book art.
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I got some flyers from back in the day with Iron Man on a hip-hop flyer, Spider-Man on a flyer. That’s crazy.
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You know what I’m saying? and the characters that they were drawing on the flyers, that was the only place I could see media that looked like me.
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Absolutely. Absolutely.
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You know, until Fat Albert and Good Times came out. Yeah.
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And I really, you know, I love Good Times, but to me, it don’t never look like they ever had a good time. [laughter] I don’t know who named that.
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Absolutely. Absolutely.
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Let’s talk, you just touched on a little bit about about Exclan. Let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about the debut album.
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This is when for me this was a pivotal point um for in my life because as you said representation is everything. This
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was XClam was one of those groups that for for me in that time, specifically that time in hip-hop where the the the
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pro black era was was everything to me because it was the first time you saw articulate,
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wellspoken, very prideful, powerful black man. And that to me as a
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young black kid was was everything everything. So, you know, to the East Blackwoods was definitely
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something that spoke to me. And matter of fact, I like I told you, we talked about um a couple weeks ago, I remember you guys, you went to uh you came to
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Kips Bay and uh I was at, you know, I was one of the kids at Kips Bay and you y’all spoke to us and I will never ever
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forget that. There’s a couple of there’s a handful of moments that were very integral to me being prideful of who I
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was and what I wanted to be. And you you guys have a very very strong stamp in
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making that a possibility for young black kids. So talk to talk to us about, you know, that debut album and and and and what that meant and, you know, what
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were what were you hoping to awaken, you know, in people through that music? I I thought specifically that was an
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offshoot or very much our, you know, Panther movement. That whole entire thing that was, you know, was it was powerful.
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Yes. of all, I’ll give that um the credit for the vision to reach out to young people and help teach us and train
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us to uh my elder Sunny Carson from Brooklyn. Um I was at Latin Quarters
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when I met Leumba Carson, his son, who wound up being Professor X in my group, the XClan. So I met Brother Jay,
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Sugar Sha, and Leumba at the Latin Quarter. And after the club closed, we became exclan due to us being affiliated
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with hip hop and rap music. And Lumumba taking me to Brooklyn to meet his father, Sunny Carson,
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who was famous for the autobiography that he wrote uh called the education of Sunny Carson and the movie by the same name.
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Uh he created a council of elders from many different walks of life. Uh we had
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a Hebrew Israelite elder, a imam elder, a Baptist priest elder, a Catholic
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priest elder. We had uh one of the first born from uh what we called the 5% nation back in those days, now called the nation of gods and earth.
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And we just uh was able to vibe and learn many different chambers of black knowledge and history from these elders.
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So, we just took that knowledge and we put it on wax.
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Plus, uh the amazing thing about that album is uh Grand Verbalizer Funkin Lesson Brother Jay was 17 years old when he started writing that album.
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That’s crazy. And 18 when he’s fit. That’s crazy.
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And uh I’ll give that credit to Brother Jay’s father. May he rest in peace. his father did such an incredible job
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educating his son and um we were blessed to be able to come together with you know the the four
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elements that was uh Leumba professor X the overseer uh the grand verbalizer funking lesson
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brother Jay the rhythm provider Sugar Sha and me the grand architect practitioner paradise so all of us added
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our own ingredients to the soup. Absolutely.
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That wound up being chicken soup for the black soul.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. And and you just touched on another point that I I definitely want to talk about because I
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think it’s it’s the one thing about hip-hop that I I that has to change for me. So, hip-hop has been one of those
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things that we don’t we do not revere our elders. And to hear that, that’s how it it used to be like every other
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culture, every other genre of music. Um, you know, you have the Rolling Stones might be on tour next year, right? And this with with hip-hop, it seems that
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like we we we put our elders out to pasture and we try to act like they don’t have the knowledge and the understanding that they do. When, as you
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clearly just said, all of the knowledge are is held within and with the elders.
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And that’s who you should revere and get closer to is Yes. And the movement set the tone for us.
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So we wound up being the theme song to the movement. Absolutely.
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At the time in New York, you know, it was a horrible time. You know, the Central Park Five, the Larry Davis case,
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the uh the Dio case, uh Yousef Hawkins had recently been murdered,
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you know. So, we had to stand up and do something. The pressure was on us. The socopolitical and economic
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uh realities of New York City was upon us, but we didn’t just come out the blue with it. You know, we were able to build
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on the intelligence and articulation of Cool Mod and Grandmaster Melly Mel and the storytelling of Grandmaster Cats.
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Mhm.
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We were able to use what they did as a foundation and people could talk about
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Mount Rushmore like when the hell did Mount Rushmore become some kind of grand measurement of anything in our community, right?
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You know, people ask about top fives and stuff like that. Well, my top five MC master of ceremony is uh Marcus Garvey.
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Mhm. Alhaj Malik El Shabbaz, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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Hat Brown and Muhammad Ali. [snorts] There you go. [laughter] There you go. What? And you know the
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people when you speak of respecting our elders for us to say that hip hop was created
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in the Bronx in 1973 from nothing is a great disrespect and untruth.
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We would not exist without James Brown, George Clinton, Slim and Family Stone,
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Rick James, the Ohio Players, Earth, Wind and Fire, the Last Poets, The Watch Prophets, Gil
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Scott Heron, you know, Amir Baraka, Sonia Sanchez, Nikki Giovani. Yeah, you know, we stand on the shoulders of
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giants. Speaking of respecting our elders, we got to really realize that hip hop is not new. Right.
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The only thing we created in the Bronx was scratching.
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Everything else began at the beginning of time.
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Right. Right. Why do you think um and what and what do you think is going to change the way that you know the elders
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are revered specifically in the culture of hip-hop? Um because that’s not the way that it was intended to be. How how
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what’s going to what is it going to take for for the the generations that are coming
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up to really gravitate and hold on to, you know, holding our our elders up to gain
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the knowledge, but also to pay them to do respect to, you know, to really put them up there in their rightful place
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because every other every other, you know, uh genre does But because of our culture, it’s more
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important to make sure that those things happen, right? Um I think that the problem is
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our values. What do we value and what has value?
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Uh during the last 30, 40 years, money has became the thing that has the
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most value. And the great master Bruce Lee once said, “These people are so poor. All they have is money.” Mhm.
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You know, when we define what value is and what worth is to be more than just
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money that’s not worth the paper is printed on, then we will understand the industry
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don’t give $30 million contracts to public enemy, exclus, right?
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They give the $30 million contracts to young greasy, young grimy. Yeah. Young liar.
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Yeah. [laughter] Young Ducky Doug Doug. No, you’re right.
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You know so much that you got grown ass men in their 30s and 40s calling yourself little and young, right?
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And you understand? So they’re bending our culture away from respecting its elders.
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you know, um the black community and culture is more than just drug dealing,
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thug dealing, guns and roses in the street, right?
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You know, so if you look at what’s happening nowadays, the young boys that sell dope, they looking at the older
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people that they that are their customers, they kick them in the butt.
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They don’t respect them, right? They talk to them however they want. A lot of older people honestly don’t even deserve respect.
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You know, we have to step into our eldership because you got elders and you got olders.
26:28
26 minutes, 28 seconds
And I’m not mad at young people for not knowing what we don’t teach them. We have to do better. Particularly the hip
26:36
26 minutes, 36 seconds
hop generation that’s in their 60s and 50s.
26:40
26 minutes, 40 seconds
We have to clean ourselves up. How you going to get respect when you look the way you look and you act the way you act?
26:47
26 minutes, 47 seconds
And when we did not reach back and mentor these young people, these young people, their reality is that the same
26:55
26 minutes, 55 seconds
older people who were supposed to protect them and educate them and teach them and provide safe spaces for them,
27:04
27 minutes, 4 seconds
those are the same ones that molested them and treated them bad, right? and have them uh that threw our young people
27:13
27 minutes, 13 seconds
away. We can’t throw them away and turn the other uh eye and look sideeyed at them, right?
27:21
27 minutes, 21 seconds
We have to respect them in order for them to respect us.
27:25
27 minutes, 25 seconds
That’s a that’s a great point. That’s a great point. Um yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. You can’t uh you don’t know what
27:33
27 minutes, 33 seconds
you don’t know and that’s a fact. And you look around, Kendrick Lamar is probably in his 30s or 40s now himself.
27:44
27 minutes, 44 seconds
But we look at him as a young man. Yeah.
27:46
27 minutes, 46 seconds
But hip hop is in good hands when it’s left to our children to create it. But as long as we got uh these record labels
27:56
27 minutes, 56 seconds
middlemaning us and robbing us and paying people to recite the most heinous things. Yeah.
28:05
28 minutes, 5 seconds
Disgusting, heinous things about each other, about our children, about our women. Then
28:13
28 minutes, 13 seconds
we’re going to be subject to somebody else’s colonization. Yeah.
28:18
28 minutes, 18 seconds
We have to decolonize hip hop. Take it back to the beginning and make it independent. We don’t need somebody in
28:27
28 minutes, 27 seconds
New York, Atlanta, or LA to sell music to the dude that live around the corner
28:33
28 minutes, 33 seconds
from us. when we unbuckle ourselves from our old slave masters because then we’ll
28:41
28 minutes, 41 seconds
have an opportunity because ain’t no official home of hip hop and R&B on no radio station. The official home of
28:50
28 minutes, 50 seconds
hip-hop and R&B is in the chest of everybody that breathes hip-hop, eats hip-hop, and performs it in their everyday life.
29:00
29 minutes
Yeah, for sure. What is the what’s the wildest untold story of one of those nights during the golden
29:09
29 minutes, 9 seconds
era that still makes you shake your head? Like I know you have a billion in one stories.
29:13
29 minutes, 13 seconds
Exactly. [laughter] So there was so many of those nights. Uh,
29:20
29 minutes, 20 seconds
you know, uh, hey, uh, I I guess the the the the Latin Quarter, uh, event that we
29:29
29 minutes, 29 seconds
did, we did a Jackie Robinson tribute and we had come together and we had a whole bunch of superstars performing at
29:38
29 minutes, 38 seconds
Latin Quarter so that we could buy a headstone and put it on Jackie Robinson’s grave. And that night,
29:46
29 minutes, 46 seconds
everybody came out. LL Cool J Run DMC Houdini the Fat Boys and all the new
29:54
29 minutes, 54 seconds
school cats. It was crazy. The club was so packed that by 10:30 that night, this
30:02
30 minutes, 2 seconds
is like 1987, 1988, we were already charging $100 ahead to get in. The club was so packed.
30:11
30 minutes, 11 seconds
and the uh 50 Cent and the A team and the Brooklyn Zoo decided that they were
30:20
30 minutes, 20 seconds
going to um snatch change that night and 50 Cent tried to snatch Jam Master Jay’s
30:26
30 minutes, 26 seconds
chain and the just put it this way that uh the Hollers crew wasn’t having it.
30:32
30 minutes, 32 seconds
Yeah. [laughter] So we wound up having a 2hour melee in the club. chairs, bottles.
30:42
30 minutes, 42 seconds
I mean, it was ridiculous. Yeah.
30:44
30 minutes, 44 seconds
Uh, one time a Robocop was swinging a katana. [laughter] Like, dude, really? You’re swinging a samurai sword in the club?
30:52
30 minutes, 52 seconds
In the club? Yeah. In the pack club.
30:54
30 minutes, 54 seconds
And then the night ended with uh a gunshot or two [laughter] and that emptied the club. So, that night was like really really hectic and bananas.
31:06
31 minutes, 6 seconds
But uh that is you know we were able to survive that night and continue on. But um so there was a lot of craziness that happened
31:15
31 minutes, 15 seconds
during that time. But at the same time on the on Tuesdays and Thursdays we were organizing what we call the meeting of
31:24
31 minutes, 24 seconds
the minds at the Latin Quarter and Tribe Called Quest, Jungle Brothers, Ja,
31:31
31 minutes, 31 seconds
XClan, Poor Righteous Teachers, uh Chuck D, KRS1, a lot of us would uh Q-tipping and we
31:39
31 minutes, 39 seconds
would all come together and we would meet with different elders, James and Tum bird song,
31:47
31 minutes, 47 seconds
Zulu Nation, um a few of the different um ministers from the Nation of Islam, and we would
31:55
31 minutes, 55 seconds
just talk about what we could do to organize and stop the violence in hip-hop.
32:01
32 minutes, 1 second
And those meetings wound up turning into the stop the violence movement after Scott Lorac got killed.
32:08
32 minutes, 8 seconds
Absolutely. and it led to the creation of the song self-destruction and later on the black watch movement
32:16
32 minutes, 16 seconds
brand new Nubian poor righteous teachers uh we started getting a real foothold in the culture and that’s uh thanks to
32:26
32 minutes, 26 seconds
the nation of gods and earth the nation of Islam Zulu nation and all the
32:32
32 minutes, 32 seconds
different young people that came together in New York to really take a Cuz remember at this time we were also
32:42
32 minutes, 42 seconds
fighting against apartheid in South Africa. Nelson Mandela was still in jail.
32:48
32 minutes, 48 seconds
So there was a lot of pressure on the international black community. And we were fortunate that we had poor
32:57
32 minutes, 57 seconds
righteous teachers which we call all the street soldiers. Yeah. That was on the street handing out lessons and trying to improve knowledge of self.
33:06
33 minutes, 6 seconds
Absolutely. Absolutely. What is what do you believe the the the the new change needs to be in order for the the ideals
33:16
33 minutes, 16 seconds
of what this was based on and what is important?
33:21
33 minutes, 21 seconds
How do we get back to that? Um uh here in Pittsburgh I one of the founders of
33:27
33 minutes, 27 seconds
an organization called One Hood and um my partner Jeri X he had an afterchool
33:35
33 minutes, 35 seconds
program at Taylor All the Dice and I had an afterchool program in a church called
33:42
33 minutes, 42 seconds
Almost Home and we wound up merging our thought patterns and working with young
33:48
33 minutes, 48 seconds
lyricists and really working like if you listen to the average 15 16 year old. He talking about he got keys from overseas and he got all these guns and all that.
33:58
33 minutes, 58 seconds
And we used to look at them like, “Come on, bro.
34:01
34 minutes, 1 second
You’re a student. You come to school every day. When do you sell drugs?” Right? When do you carry guns and pop them?
34:08
34 minutes, 8 seconds
When we stop allowing thuggery and the streets to dominate our
34:17
34 minutes, 17 seconds
culture when it comes to entertainment, that’s when we’ll be able to really get a good handle on it. When young people
34:27
34 minutes, 27 seconds
could just be themselves and have safe spaces to practice, not just the rap, that’s the problem. We
34:35
34 minutes, 35 seconds
just got the rap element. We’re not practicing the dancing and the graffiti, but the reality is that they’re young
34:43
34 minutes, 43 seconds
people that practice every single element of hip-hop. Yeah. But the camera don’t look at them. Yeah.
34:50
34 minutes, 50 seconds
You know, like I said, we got to do what Kendrick said, turn the TV off. Mhm.
34:55
34 minutes, 55 seconds
You know, we got to We did hip hop in the streets when there was no one on TV that looked like us, right?
35:03
35 minutes, 3 seconds
We have to return to those times, you know? And we got to get back outside and we got to go back inside ourselves and
35:11
35 minutes, 11 seconds
determine that money is not the be all catch all. Money does not make you
35:19
35 minutes, 19 seconds
wealthy and money does not make you healthy. In fact, the entertainment industry would be happy to maintain the
35:28
35 minutes, 28 seconds
status quo, to pay the few of us a whole lot of money, keep the rest of us broke, and keep us chasing the bag.
35:39
35 minutes, 39 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s what’s wrong.
35:43
35 minutes, 43 seconds
[clears throat]35:43
35 minutes, 43 seconds
It’s all fake. Yeah.
35:44
35 minutes, 44 seconds
You know what I’m saying? Everything that looks good ain’t good. All that glitters is not gold. For sure. You know what I’m saying?
35:53
35 minutes, 53 seconds
There’s a lot of fools gold out there and the entertainment industry will make you believe that these people are living
36:00
36 minutes
it up. Meanwhile, be fake as MTV cribs, you know, with all that [laughter] crystal style in the refrigerator and no
36:07
36 minutes, 7 seconds
food, you know, five cars in the in the in the driveway. If you look at the license plate, all the cars got the
36:15
36 minutes, 15 seconds
license plate. You look up the license plate, it’s a car rental service. Mhm.
36:20
36 minutes, 20 seconds
And the person on Yom MTV rap don’t even live in that crib. That’s rented, too. Yeah.
36:26
36 minutes, 26 seconds
We got to determine what’s real and what’s fantasy and you know, understand that the
36:33
36 minutes, 33 seconds
entertainment industry will sell you a fake dream, give you all the drugs you want, all the sex you want, all the
36:43
36 minutes, 43 seconds
Sodom and Gamora you want, and take you on a wild ride. Yeah. Yeah.
36:47
36 minutes, 47 seconds
And by the time that ride is over, you sitting on the curb homeless and broke and they walked away with your
36:56
36 minutes, 56 seconds
publishing and your money. Yeah.
36:58
36 minutes, 58 seconds
So, we got to be careful about that. And young people, handle your business. Don’t let your business handle you.
37:05
37 minutes, 5 seconds
Yeah. Yeah. We definitely And you don’t need these middlemen.
37:08
37 minutes, 8 seconds
We got to get back between you and your money. Yeah. Create your own.
37:13
37 minutes, 13 seconds
Capture your own. Develop your own fan base. Don’t worry about somebody else ripping you off and how much they going to pay you. Collect your own money.
37:21
37 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah. We got to be be stewards of of of the culture, you know, is we we have to,
37:28
37 minutes, 28 seconds
you know, so many times we are uh participants in the culture that we created and not benefactors of the
37:38
37 minutes, 38 seconds
revenue that is generated from it. Um, period.
37:41
37 minutes, 41 seconds
Let’s let’s talk about the the the hip-hop museum. So, that’s set to open up, I believe, in 2026, if I’m not
37:48
37 minutes, 48 seconds
correct. Um, what’s your vision for for the museum, uh, you know, beyond the exhibits, beyond all of the what what
37:56
37 minutes, 56 seconds
what is what is your pie in the sky goal and vision for how that shakes out?
38:04
38 minutes, 4 seconds
Well, uh, to be honest, I’m not building a museum for 2026. I’m building a museum for 3026.
38:11
38 minutes, 11 seconds
When all the personalities, we’ll all be dead and gone. Mhm.
38:16
38 minutes, 16 seconds
What we leave behind will be the judge of what we created and what we lived.
38:24
38 minutes, 24 seconds
So, what I’m trying to do is not pass judgments, but to collect everything and the good, the bad, the ugly
38:33
38 minutes, 33 seconds
and put it in an archive. And also remember that for me, a hip-hop museum
38:41
38 minutes, 41 seconds
is not about what we put on the walls or what we put on display. It’s about the people behind those items, right?
38:48
38 minutes, 48 seconds
You know, so I want to just tell as many of the stories as I can and allow the people themselves to tell the stories.
39:01
39 minutes, 1 second
Yeah. and let those stories speak for themselves.
39:04
39 minutes, 4 seconds
Absolutely. Absolutely. The We’re in this digital age and there’s so much
39:12
39 minutes, 12 seconds
information but not a lot of it is archived. Not a lot of it is saved in in a manner in which to preserve. Do you
39:20
39 minutes, 20 seconds
how do we ensure that today’s hiphop doesn’t vanish tomorrow and do you deem it worthy of preserving?
39:30
39 minutes, 30 seconds
Absolutely. Uh when people say hip hop, they don’t really mean hip-hop. They mean rap music.
39:37
39 minutes, 37 seconds
And our culture is more than just rapping. You know what I’m saying? But even rappers, there has to be better filters.
39:49
39 minutes, 49 seconds
You know, back in the day, we had the greatest filters in the world. The independent record labels were great filters. Mhm.
39:57
39 minutes, 57 seconds
We had Red Alert, Chuck Chill Out, Marley M, Mr. Magic, those were the filters. Yeah.
40:05
40 minutes, 5 seconds
Nowadays, all soal black radio is not us. They not like us, right?
40:13
40 minutes, 13 seconds
You know, it’s being programmed from one central position and the playlist everywhere in America is the same
40:22
40 minutes, 22 seconds
playlist. There’s no local music anymore. There’s no local playlist, right?
40:26
40 minutes, 26 seconds
Why should I be listening to guys that sound like, you know, speaking languages that I
40:33
40 minutes, 33 seconds
don’t even understand? You know what I’m saying? And I live in New York. I want to hear I want to hear my rappers in New York sound like Jay-Z.
40:42
40 minutes, 42 seconds
That’s a great I want to just hear That’s a great point. That’s a great point.
40:44
40 minutes, 44 seconds
Brain dead low intellect music all the time. We need to bring a balance to what we allow our
40:53
40 minutes, 53 seconds
children to listen to. And as long as we have people like iHeart Radio that used to be Clear Channel, that was owned by
41:02
41 minutes, 2 seconds
Bane Capital that was owned by Mitt Romney.
41:05
41 minutes, 5 seconds
As long as those guys are the ones who are, you know, uh, programming our music, it’ll be back to our regularly scheduled programming.
41:15
41 minutes, 15 seconds
Yeah.
41:16
41 minutes, 16 seconds
If if the early days was a call to consciousness like when XClan and PE and
41:24
41 minutes, 24 seconds
Poor Righteous Teachers and all of you guys were doing that work. What is hip-hop asking us today?
41:33
41 minutes, 33 seconds
Um um I don’t know what hip-hop is asking us because like I said I deal with
41:41
41 minutes, 41 seconds
hip-hop. I believe that is higher infinite power healing our people. Mhm. And some people don’t feel that way.
41:50
41 minutes, 50 seconds
Some people think it’s just uh a way to make money. Yeah.
41:53
41 minutes, 53 seconds
And uh like I said, when hip-hop was created, there was very little money in it, you know. Yeah.
42:00
42 minutes
People just have to decide for themselves what do they want. And uh there’s no teacher like pain.
42:08
42 minutes, 8 seconds
Yeah. And in the last 30 years, everybody, it was hard to convince people that uh we have been colonized,
42:16
42 minutes, 16 seconds
you know. Everybody been thinking that we made it. You know, everybody was thinking that we overcame. It’s time to party and bull crap. Mhm.
42:24
42 minutes, 24 seconds
You know, uh but there’s a new pain coming. And uh I’m sure and confident
42:32
42 minutes, 32 seconds
that our people will respond to the pain and that the intellect
42:39
42 minutes, 39 seconds
and the creativity of our people will shine through. I have no problems with
42:46
42 minutes, 46 seconds
handing hip hop over to young people because I don’t just listen to mainstream music.
42:54
42 minutes, 54 seconds
I listen to local music. I listen to music uh from the DSporter
43:01
43 minutes, 1 second
and there are a lot of amazing artists out there. So, you never really hear me complaining too much about the artists in hip-hop or rap, right?
43:12
43 minutes, 12 seconds
Because I don’t allow Clear Channel or iHeart Radio to dig in
43:18
43 minutes, 18 seconds
the crates and filter me out and program me. I know how to find good music on my own. Until people stop being so lazy and
43:28
43 minutes, 28 seconds
going to these charts and playing what’s on the top, right? Then the music will always be bull crap.
43:35
43 minutes, 35 seconds
And I’ll give you some credit with that and you just stated it. Uh you you welcome with open arms all the young
43:44
43 minutes, 44 seconds
upand cominging artists and and you on many occasions have been very vocal about um them being
43:53
43 minutes, 53 seconds
you know very good stewards of the culture specifically in in in how they’re handling their business because
44:00
44 minutes
this is the this is the age of independence for artists and so you’ve been very vocal with being champion ions
44:08
44 minutes, 8 seconds
for the younger people. With that being the case, um what what does the the the next real
44:16
44 minutes, 16 seconds
investment in the next generation look like to you? How do we how do we help uh help them to continue on the work that
44:26
44 minutes, 26 seconds
they’re doing along with carrying some of the past, the stuff that is relevant to making sure that we can get to the next levels? What does that look like?
44:36
44 minutes, 36 seconds
We have to create safe spaces not just for the people but for the
44:43
44 minutes, 43 seconds
entertainment and the music. If we build a stadium, you know, so to speak, and lay out the
44:52
44 minutes, 52 seconds
rules, then the young people know what they’re dealing with. But right now, what are the rules? There ain’t no street rules as every man for himself.
45:01
45 minutes, 1 second
People snitch left and right.
45:03
45 minutes, 3 seconds
You know what I mean? There’s no rules and no accountability. Right?
45:07
45 minutes, 7 seconds
When we create rules, laws, and accountability and hold ourselves accountable, then we’ll be able to
45:16
45 minutes, 16 seconds
create a platform for young people to begin to hold themselves accountable.
45:22
45 minutes, 22 seconds
Absolutely. Okay. Well, before I let you go, I want to play a little game we call the lightning round. And it’s basically
45:30
45 minutes, 30 seconds
just a quick fire round. I’m going to uh give you a uh a phrase or a word and then you tell me the first thing that pops into your head.
45:39
45 minutes, 39 seconds
Yeah. Cool. All right. All right.
45:43
45 minutes, 43 seconds
Which of the four pillars of hip-hop, that’s MCing, DJing, breaking, and graffiti for those who don’t know, which one of those is the most vital to carry on the culture?
45:56
45 minutes, 56 seconds
Wow.
45:58
45 minutes, 58 seconds
Yeah. I would have to say it’s rapping because rapping has the uh the bully pull pit. Yeah.
46:04
46 minutes, 4 seconds
You know, the rappers have the the bullhorn. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
46:08
46 minutes, 8 seconds
You know, so they they they can influence the most people.
46:12
46 minutes, 12 seconds
Okay. Okay. Great. Who had the craziest energy at the Latin Quarter? Hands down. No debate.
46:22
46 minutes, 22 seconds
That’s a tough one, but I would have to say Big Daddy Kane. Yeah, Kane.
46:28
46 minutes, 28 seconds
Yeah, that’s that’s Kane was the whole package.
46:30
46 minutes, 30 seconds
Yeah. [laughter] You know what I mean? Yeah.
46:33
46 minutes, 33 seconds
Kane had the look, the haircut, the jewelry. Yeah. Yeah. Marley M’s beats.
46:41
46 minutes, 41 seconds
Yeah. He’s Listen, Biz Marky beatboxing.
46:44
46 minutes, 44 seconds
Oh yeah. Yeah. He’s Roxan Shante backing him up and the whole Juice crew and he could dance. And he could dance.
46:51
46 minutes, 51 seconds
And he had Scoo scrap. And he could dance. He had it all. Yes. And he had the dance. Yeah. He had it. He was the whole package. Yeah. Yeah.
46:57
46 minutes, 57 seconds
Kane is Kane is tough. All right. Most slept on MC of all time.
47:06
47 minutes, 6 seconds
I would have to say Grand Verbalizer Funking Lesson, Brother Jay. Yeah, Brother Jay.
47:11
47 minutes, 11 seconds
To this day, I challenge anyone to find a more culturally
47:19
47 minutes, 19 seconds
revolutionary and relevant album than to the East Blackwards. The only thing that comes close is Public Enemies Take a Nation of Millions.
47:30
47 minutes, 30 seconds
Yeah. And Ice Cubes first album. Yeah.
47:36
47 minutes, 36 seconds
Okay. Um, what hip-hop relic in your vault would start a bidding war?
47:47
47 minutes, 47 seconds
Uh, I would say that, uh, probably my ex-client collection. M
47:54
47 minutes, 54 seconds
I have the original crown of exclan that I created as an architect.
47:59
47 minutes, 59 seconds
I have the wooden sticks. I have the beads, the jewelry. I have the red, black, and green flags.
48:06
48 minutes, 6 seconds
Yeah, that knowledge needs to be a college course.
48:11
48 minutes, 11 seconds
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Okay. What’s more sacred, the first bar or the last beat?
48:20
48 minutes, 20 seconds
The first bar or the last beat. What do you mean by secret?
48:24
48 minutes, 24 seconds
As far as what people great what people gravitate to or hold on to, what’s more important of uh in a song? Is it the first bar or is it the last beat?
48:36
48 minutes, 36 seconds
I think it’s the first beat.
48:38
48 minutes, 38 seconds
Yeah. [laughter] The first 20 seconds when I was digging in the crates. So still to this day, if I put your song
48:46
48 minutes, 46 seconds
on, you don’t catch me in the first 20 seconds, the beat had to be the be the be the key. Yeah. Okay.
48:52
48 minutes, 52 seconds
You know, cuz a lot of these so-called rappers can’t even wrap a Christmas present, but [laughter] the beat is just so ill. Yeah.
49:01
49 minutes, 1 second
That it doesn’t even matter. Got you. Okay.
49:03
49 minutes, 3 seconds
You can say, “Yeah, that’s Yeah, we And if the beat is right, there you go.
49:09
49 minutes, 9 seconds
It’s going to work.” Absolutely. Okay.
49:12
49 minutes, 12 seconds
Oh, for an example, one of my favorite lines in hip-hop doesn’t even have a rhyme in it. What’s that? It’s Zzz.
49:20
49 minutes, 20 seconds
Oh, yeah. rest in peace to my man Paw Wow.
49:27
49 minutes, 27 seconds
Yeah. Hey, you know, he was in the booth. It was his turn to rhyme. Soul Sonic Force got his rhyme. Soul Sonic Force.
49:34
49 minutes, 34 seconds
And instead [laughter] of saying words, that’s what he said.
49:36
49 minutes, 36 seconds
Yeah. And it’s and it’s and it’s classic to [laughter] this day. Great point.
49:41
49 minutes, 41 seconds
Great point. All right. You’re building a hip-hop museum wing with three items. What are they?
49:50
49 minutes, 50 seconds
Harry Bellfonte’s 1984 NAACP Image Award for Film of the Year for Beat Street.
50:01
50 minutes, 1 second
Okay.
50:02
50 minutes, 2 seconds
Which I just so happen to have right here in the box behind me. Wow. Okay. That’s one.
50:09
50 minutes, 9 seconds
Um, I would also love to have that car
50:17
50 minutes, 17 seconds
from that film with Cool Herk driving around with the two speakers in it.
50:21
50 minutes, 21 seconds
Yeah, that car with the two speakers in it would be dope. Yeah, the convertible.
50:27
50 minutes, 27 seconds
Yeah. and the turntables that Grand Mixer DXT used
50:34
50 minutes, 34 seconds
1984 Grammys when he performed live with Herby Hancock Rocket.
50:39
50 minutes, 39 seconds
Wow. Okay, that’s huge. All right, [snorts] that was one of the greatest moments of my life.
50:46
50 minutes, 46 seconds
That’s awesome. What’s the wildest thing someone tried to pass off as hip-hop history
50:57
50 minutes, 57 seconds
that the first party of hip hop and the birth of hip hop was August 11th 1973.
51:08
51 minutes, 8 seconds
That flyer Yeah.
51:10
51 minutes, 10 seconds
is faith. [laughter] What do you mean by faith? It’s a index card that’s handwritten. It was in Joe
51:18
51 minutes, 18 seconds
Gonzo’s book, Born in the Bronx. It’s a fake.
51:22
51 minutes, 22 seconds
Okay, y’all. Y’all heard it out there. It’s a fake. All right.
51:28
51 minutes, 28 seconds
Me and my partner, Prime Minister Pete Nice from third base. We have real index cards from Cool Herz parties in 1973.
51:37
51 minutes, 37 seconds
And beat this, we have index cards from her parties in 1972.
51:43
51 minutes, 43 seconds
Mhm. M. Yeah. So, it couldn’t be the first. [laughter] There you go. I’m saying.
51:50
51 minutes, 50 seconds
All right. You got to cook a dish that represents the culture. What’s on the plate?
51:56
51 minutes, 56 seconds
Wow.
51:59
51 minutes, 59 seconds
That would have to be a whole different thing. I’d have to have some curry and jerk chicken on that plate. Mhm.
52:07
52 minutes, 7 seconds
Some grits and cornbread on that plate.
52:09
52 minutes, 9 seconds
We We need a big plate. We need we need we need we need a glando.
52:14
52 minutes, 14 seconds
Yeah. [laughter] It had to be a banquet. Hip hop is a whole meal.
52:22
52 minutes, 22 seconds
The plate has to be a table. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Got you.
52:26
52 minutes, 26 seconds
I will not bring a sandwich to a banquet.
52:29
52 minutes, 29 seconds
Yes. Yes, sir. All right. [laughter] Here we go. Top three DJs who could still shut the club down tonight.
52:38
52 minutes, 38 seconds
Oh, man. Uh, once again, Grand Mixer DXT, right?
52:46
52 minutes, 46 seconds
I mess with my man Capri big time. I love Kid Capri. And man, I miss Jam Master J.
52:54
52 minutes, 54 seconds
Yeah.
52:55
52 minutes, 55 seconds
So, I can’t say him cuz you said still rock the party to this day, right?
53:00
53 minutes
And if I had to choose any DJ to play any party for me, it would have to be who? DJ Red Alert.
53:10
53 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah, Uncle Red. [singing] Yes, sir. Yes, sir. [laughter] Yes, sir.
53:16
53 minutes, 16 seconds
Okay. In one word, what’s hip-hop missing right now? us.
53:25
53 minutes, 25 seconds
The only thing that we don’t have that we had during the golden era of hip hop is each other.
53:32
53 minutes, 32 seconds
Yeah.
53:33
53 minutes, 33 seconds
We had the Latin Quarter, we had the Fever, we had Rose Land, the Roxy, the
53:41
53 minutes, 41 seconds
Palladium, the Rooftop, Empire Roller Rink, and on the West Coast they had Skate Land.
53:49
53 minutes, 49 seconds
In the South, they got CL. All we need is a place to be and for us to show up and that’s all we need.
53:57
53 minutes, 57 seconds
Yeah.
53:58
53 minutes, 58 seconds
We don’t need a mic. We don’t need a turntable. We’ll beat on the table.
54:03
54 minutes, 3 seconds
We’ll beatbox facts.
54:05
54 minutes, 5 seconds
We’ll ac capella. We’ll dance with no music.
54:09
54 minutes, 9 seconds
We’ll create art that’ll blow Michelangelo away.
54:14
54 minutes, 14 seconds
will come up with a cipher of knowledge, wisdom, and understanding that Frederick Douglas will be jealous of the debates
54:22
54 minutes, 22 seconds
that we’ll have with each other. All we need is each other.
54:28
54 minutes, 28 seconds
That’s a great point. Great point. And finally, I have a question for you. How do you want Paradise Gray to be
54:36
54 minutes, 36 seconds
remembered? Curator, creator, cultural protector, or something else entirely?
54:44
54 minutes, 44 seconds
manager, promoter, photographer, author, writer, um mentor.
54:57
54 minutes, 57 seconds
Yes. All of the above. D. Here we go. Absolutely. Absolutely.
55:02
55 minutes, 2 seconds
Listen, um, you are are an amazing amazing human, a a a a continuous
55:12
55 minutes, 12 seconds
blessing to everything that is the hip-hop culture. Um, to to so many so many so many so many people. So, I I I
55:21
55 minutes, 21 seconds
want to thank you for taking the time to to to be on with us and to drop the jewels and gems that you have. And there’s plenty much more. And you know
55:29
55 minutes, 29 seconds
me, I’m I’mma be on your line. So, uh, we going we going to be wrapping this.
55:33
55 minutes, 33 seconds
We got to do some things together as well. Yeah.
55:35
55 minutes, 35 seconds
Um, and like I said, you know, I I I love being on with you. Yeah.
55:42
55 minutes, 42 seconds
But, uh, this Zoom thing ain’t no good, man. I can’t taste
55:46
55 minutes, 46 seconds
[laughter]55:48
55 minutes, 48 seconds
to be there. I got you. I got to be there.
55:51
55 minutes, 51 seconds
We gonna we going to link up and we we going to break some bread and we going to have we gonna have some times. We want to do do it the right way. Um, but now we talking, baby.
55:58
55 minutes, 58 seconds
Yes. Yes. Yes, sir. So, really quick before we dip off, I got to, you know, let everybody know where they can follow
56:04
56 minutes, 4 seconds
you and and and be more in tune to what you got going on out there. So, give them your social handles and everything else you got going on.
56:13
56 minutes, 13 seconds
Uh, you can find me at paradisegrade on IG and uh pHiphop.com.
56:22
56 minutes, 22 seconds
Okay.
56:23
56 minutes, 23 seconds
Big up to Pittsburgh. Where’s Matt? All my Pittsburgh black and gold homies, yo,
56:31
56 minutes, 31 seconds
we about to do this, too. You know what I’m saying? I would like to leave with everybody that don’t just leave it to
56:40
56 minutes, 40 seconds
other people to archive your music or your culture. Organize and archive your culture locally.
56:47
56 minutes, 47 seconds
That’s where it means the most. Save your history. Tell your story.
56:54
56 minutes, 54 seconds
Hit me up. Let me know your hip-hop story. I want to come to your city and help y’all organize at paradisegrade IG.
57:04
57 minutes, 4 seconds
Absolutely. Absolutely. But again, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you. Uh for everybody out there, this
57:13
57 minutes, 13 seconds
has been the Taste Music Here Food Podcast Show. Till next time. Peace.